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 OgopogoJoined: 11 Dec 2004 Total posts: 13113 Gender: Unknown
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 Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 1:10 pm Post subject: Celibacy to blame for sex abuse cases, says cardinal |
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http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1257175/Cardinal-Schonborn-claims-celibacy-blame-Catholic-sex-abuse-cases.html
Celibacy to blame for sex abuse cases, says cardinal tipped for papacy
By Nick Pisa
Last updated at 4:35 PM on 11th March 2010
Schoenborn
Controversial views: Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn said celibacy was partly to blame for Catholic sex abuse cases
A leading cardinal today claimed that the sex abuse cases rocking the Roman Catholic Church were due to 'priestly celibacy'.
Calling for a 'change of vision', Cardinal Christoph Schoenborn, leader of the Catholic Church in Austria, said the causes of sex abuse by priests could be found in 'priest celibacy' and 'priest training'.
In recent weeks the church has been rocked by a series of abuse scandals in Ireland, Holland and Germany - where Pope Benedict's retired priest brother Georg Ratzinger has admitted to hitting choir boys.
The 65-year-old cardinal, who is tipped to be a future pope, made the shock claims in a religious magazine.
Cardinal Schoenborn said: 'The causes of sex abuse by priests? These need to be found in priest training, as well as the question of what happened in the so-called sexual revolution of 1968.
'It also includes the issue of priest celibacy and the issue of personality development.
'It requires a great deal of honesty, both on the part of the Church and of society as a whole, a change of vision.'
He added: 'Enough is enough. That's what many people are saying and thinking. Enough of the scandals! How is it that members of the Church are constantly made responsible for crimes that we didn't commit?'
Pope Benedict has described abuse of children by priests as a 'heinous crime' and has vowed to tackle the problem urgently and decisively.
More...
* Catholic sex abuse scandals are 'evidence the Devil is in the Vatican', says Pope's chief exorcist
But despite calls by a number of theologians and lay Catholic organisations to abolish priest celibacy, the Vatican sees the issue as strictly 'non negotiable'.
Cardinal Schoenborn has been leader of the Austrian church for 15 years - since his predecessor, Cardinal Hans Hermann Groer, was forced to quit after it emerged that he had abused boys.
He has held views seen as radical in the church including advocating the use of condoms and accepting the possibility of evolution.
In 1996, he told an Austrian TV that someone suffering from Aids might use a condom as a 'lesser evil'. But he quickly cautioned: 'No one could affirm that the use of a condom is the ideal in sexual relations.'
nun and rosary
In recent weeks the church has been rocked by a series of abuse scandals in Ireland, Holland and Germany - where Pope Benedict's retired priest brother Georg Ratzinger has admitted to hitting choir boys
During the last few days other alleged cases of sexual and physical abuse by Catholic priests have surfaced in Austria in the boarding school of Mehrerau Abbey.
The issue of celibacy is due to be discussed at a two-day conference hosted by the Vatican's Pontifical Lateran University which is under the control of Pope Benedict XVI.
It is thought that many Catholic priests privately believe a married clergy is the obvious solution to a number of problems confronting the church, from the shortage of priests to the recent sex scandals.
The celibacy rule for priests was not part of the early Christian Church but was introduced in the Middle Ages. A number of early Christian fathers were married, including St Peter himself, according to St Mark's Gospel.
Today there was no official comment from the Vatican on Cardinal Schoenborn's comments.
Hondurian Cardinal Óscar Andrés Rodríguez Maradiaga, who was attending the conference at the Lateran University, was asked about Cardinal Schoenborn's comments but dismissed them.
He said:'I don't understand how there can be a relation between priestly celibacy and paedophile cases within the Church because abuse also takes place where there is no celibacy.
'The problem is that cases of abuse carried out by people who are not clergy are not publicised but to avoid these cases we must insist on eduaction and this is very important.
'We cannot blame the whole of the clergy for a few who have fallen and who have sinned.'
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1257175/Cardinal-Schonborn-claims-celibacy-blame-Catholic-sex-abuse-cases.html#ixzz0i4nit9GP |
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Fabulous Fred
Gender: Male
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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That has been my position as well. However it appears to be a minority p.o.v.
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| Cecilia Gender: Female
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 2:48 pm Post subject: |
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Oh Yawn, tabloid reporting is such a bore.
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Grig
Joined: 15 Jan 2001 Total posts: 14141
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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Human behaviour is too complex to say that all cases of a behaviour have the same cause, but at the same time I see 'priestly celibacy' as unnecessary, unhealthy, and contrary to the commands of God.
One of the big problems the Catholic Church would have if they changed it was the financial situation of having priests marry and support families. But then again, a paid clergy is not the way Christ did it.
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| Cecilia Gender: Female
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Grig wrote: |
One of the big problems the Catholic Church would have if they changed it was the financial situation of having priests marry and support families. |
I know of no such problem in the Eastern Rite.
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| Cecilia Gender: Female
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Come to think of it, I know of no such problem in the Latin Rite either. There are married priest there too. (Converts)
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Edward Kennedy
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Total posts: 16409 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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| Grig wrote: | Human behaviour is too complex to say that all cases of a behaviour have the same cause, but at the same time I see 'priestly celibacy' as unnecessary, unhealthy, and contrary to the commands of God.
One of the big problems the Catholic Church would have if they changed it was the financial situation of having priests marry and support families. But then again, a paid clergy is not the way Christ did it. |
Absolutely correct. |
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Grig
Joined: 15 Jan 2001 Total posts: 14141
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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| Cecilia wrote: | | Come to think of it, I know of no such problem in the Latin Rite either. There are married priest there too. (Converts) |
Having a few isn't a big deal, but if you had 80% of the Catholic Priests marry over the first 5 years after allowing it, and 60% of those having one or more kids in the next five years after that, how much of the Church's infrastructure would have to change (living accommodations etc.) how much more would the church have to put out to support not just the priest, but the family as well, health care costs, etc. Or is the Catholic church going to tell those mothers to go out and get a job and put their kid in day-care? If you allow it for priests, the nuns will want it too, and then you have pregnancy and maternity leave. and childrearing etc. Then what happens when a marriage goes bad? They couldn't require them to only marry a faithful Catholic, so the possibility of divorces, ex-wives, child support, etc. etc. The church is not designed for priests and nuns to be spouses and parents, so it would be a major change that would carry a big expense along with the adjustment.
I think they've painted themselves into a corner and there is no easy, painless way out. They should have never started down this road in the first place.
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Edward Kennedy
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Total posts: 16409 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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| Grig wrote: | | Cecilia wrote: | | Come to think of it, I know of no such problem in the Latin Rite either. There are married priest there too. (Converts) |
Having a few isn't a big deal, but if you had 80% of the Catholic Priests marry over the first 5 years after allowing it, and 60% of those having one or more kids in the next five years after that, how much of the Church's infrastructure would have to change (living accommodations etc.) how much more would the church have to put out to support not just the priest, but the family as well, health care costs, etc. Or is the Catholic church going to tell those mothers to go out and get a job and put their kid in day-care? If you allow it for priests, the nuns will want it too, and then you have pregnancy and maternity leave. and childrearing etc. Then what happens when a marriage goes bad? They couldn't require them to only marry a faithful Catholic, so the possibility of divorces, ex-wives, child support, etc. etc. The church is not designed for priests and nuns to be spouses and parents, so it would be a major change that would carry a big expense along with the adjustment.
I think they've painted themselves into a corner and there is no easy, painless way out. They should have never started down this road in the first place. |
reminds me of the song, "It's a long rocky road that has no turnin" |
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Paycheck
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:11 pm Post subject: |
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Sexual abuse of minors has nothing to do with celibacy and everything to do with homosexuality.
The problem of sexual abuse, in case some of you have not clued in, is not restricted to the Roman Catholic priesthood. In fact, as a demographic group it is no more inclined to abuse than any other demographic class. That's what the stats say. Of course, when a priest abuses, BECAUSE HE IS A PUBLIC FIGURE AND BECAUSE HE IS CATHOLIC, he will obviously encounter media attention for obvious reasons.
The problem with the Catholic priesthood, just like it is with marriage, is a crisis of FIDELITY TO ONE'S VOWS. It is not a coincidence, for instance, that marriage (traditional marriage that is) is in the gutter at the same time that there is ripe sexual abuse.
How many millions of "Uncle Bobs" make it to the media? Not too bloody many. Because Uncle Bob, even though he has been married, doesn't hit the headlines. And nobody is telling him that what he really needs is another woman to satisfy his carnal lusts and that marriage for life is really unrealistic for men...or maybe liberals are saying that but conservatives are not...at least not the non-Catholics on this board.
But teachers, coaches, priests, and other public figures have indeed abused. There is no authentic correlation between celibacy and minor abuse...any more than there is a single person living a chaste life for his entire life. It's a vocation of love and self-sacrifice for a common good which many people do not understand because they have never understood the church's teaching concerning self-sacrifice and true love.
Would the Christians on this board correct St. Paul? Would they correct Jesus Christ? Both said it was better to be chaste "for the kingdom".
Please, folks, let us not take the bait of the liars and the propagandists in the MSM who push this issue because of their own sick sexual perversions. They hate purity and self control and self sacrifice. That's why they hate what the Roman Catholic priesthood is supposed to represent. That's why they attack it, hoping to erase it from the Christian world view. Priests are married to the Church. They are called to a higher form of self sacrifice so they can be available COMPLETELY to the people of God. That's what St. Paul taught. That is the divine tradition of God, passed down to us. And we'll defend it to the last.
Oh, by the way, that story is completely bunk. The Cardinal issued a correction of the media reports that said he said celibacy was the problem. What he did say was that priests had to have better formation in living this life out.
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This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce) |
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| politics101 Joined: 11 Sep 2006 Total posts: 2272 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Fabulous Fred wrote: | | That has been my position as well. However it appears to be a minority p.o.v. |
No, I agree. Celibacy is unnatural, unhealthy, and its bound to manifest itself the way it has and will continue to do so unless this practice changes. |
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Paycheck
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:25 pm Post subject: |
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| politics101 wrote: | | Fabulous Fred wrote: | | That has been my position as well. However it appears to be a minority p.o.v. |
No, I agree. Celibacy is unnatural, unhealthy, and its bound to manifest itself the way it has and will continue to do so unless this practice changes. |
Just so that all of the Protestant Conservative Christians are understanding you correctly, Politics101. What you are saying is that it unnatural to be chaste one's whole life. That it's some kind of psychological disorder to not have sex or to not fornicate if one is not fortunate to get married. Is that what you are saying?
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This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce) |
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Paycheck
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | Despite headlines focusing on the priest pedophile problem in the Roman Catholic Church, most American churches being hit with child sexual-abuse allegations are Protestant, and most of the alleged abusers are not clergy or staff, but church volunteers.
These are findings from national surveys by Christian Ministry Resources (CMR), a tax and legal-advice publisher serving more than 75,000 congregations and 1,000 denominational agencies nationwide.
CMR's annual surveys of about 1,000 churches nationwide have asked about sexual abuse since 1993. They're a remarkable window on a problem that lurked largely in the shadows of public awareness until the Catholic scandals arose.
The surveys suggest that over the past decade, the pace of child-abuse allegations against American churches has averaged 70 a week. The surveys registered a slight downward trend in reported abuse starting in 1997, possibly a result of the introduction of preventive measures by churches.
"I think the CMR numbers are striking, yet quite reasonable," says Anson Shupe, anIndiana University professor who's written books about church abuse. "To me it says Protestants are less reluctant to come forward because they don't put their clergy on as high a pedestal as Catholics do with their priests."
At least 70 incidents a week
Dr. Shupe suggests the 70 allegations-per-week figure actually could be higher, because underreporting is common. He discovered this in 1998 while going door to door in Dallas-Ft. Worth communities where he asked 1,607 families if they'd experienced abuse from those within their church. Nearly 4 percent said they had been victims of sexual abuse by clergy. Child sexual abuse was part of that, but not broken out, he says.
James Cobble, executive director of CMR, who oversees the survey, says the data show that child sex-abuse happens broadly across all denominations– and that clergy aren't the major offenders.
"The Catholics have gotten all the attention from the media, but this problem is even greater with the Protestant churches simply because of their far larger numbers," he says.
Of the 350,000 churches in the US, 19,500 – 5 percent – are Roman Catholic. Catholic churches represent a slightly smaller minority of churches in the CMR surveys which aren't scientifically random, but "representative" demographic samples of churches, Dr. Cobble explains.
Since 1993, on average about 1 percent of the surveyed churches reported abuse allegations annually. That means on average, about 3,500 allegations annually, or nearly 70 per among the predominantly Protestant group, Cobble says.
The CMR findings also reveal:
• Most church child-sexual-abuse cases involve a single victim.
Law suits or out-of-court settlements were a result in 21 percent of the allegations reported in the 2000 survey.
• Volunteers are more likely than clergy or paid staff to be abusers. Perhaps more startling, children at churches are accused of sexual abuse as often as are clergy and staff. In 1999, for example, 42 percent of alleged child abusers were volunteers – about 25 percent were paid staff members (including clergy) and 25 percent were other children.
Still, it is the reduction of reported allegations over nine years that seems to indicate that some churches are learning how to slow abuse allegations with tough new prevention measures, say insurance company officials and church officials themselves.
The peak year for allegations was 1994, with 3 percent of churches reporting an allegation of sexual misconduct compared with just 0.1 percent in 2000. But 2001 data, indicates a swing back to the 1 percent level, still significantly less than the 1993 figures, Cobble says.
Child sexual-abuse insurance claims have slowed, too, industry sources say.
Hugh White, vice president of marketing for Brotherhood Mutual Insurance, in Ft. Wayne, Ind., suggests that the amount of abuse reported in the CMR 2001 data is reasonable though "at the higher end" of the scale.
Mr. White's company insures 30,000 churches – about 0.2 percent to 0.3 percent of which annually report an "incident" of child sexual abuse. But he says that his churches are more highly educated on child abuse prevention procedures than most, which may account for a lower rate of reported abuse than the CMR surveys.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2002/0405/p01s01-ussc.html |
Gee, I wonder why it's always about the Roman Catholic Priest and the Church's teaching with celibacy. 
The MSM and the liberals HATE self sacrifice.
That's what the attack on celibacy is all about. It's about stripping anything which stands in opposition to their march for sexual dhimmitude.
Anything which stands in the way of discipline in sex must be destroyed.
What do you think, my Protestant friends, is the icon for sexual self control if not a PROFESSED CHASTE MAN OR WOMAN?
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Socon Or Bust: http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/
This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce) |
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| Cecilia Gender: Female
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| Grig wrote: | | Cecilia wrote: | | Come to think of it, I know of no such problem in the Latin Rite either. There are married priest there too. (Converts) |
Having a few isn't a big deal, but if you had 80% of the Catholic Priests marry over the first 5 years after allowing it, and 60% of those having one or more kids in the next five years after that, how much of the Church's infrastructure would have to change (living accommodations etc.) how much more would the church have to put out to support not just the priest, but the family as well, health care costs, etc. Or is the Catholic church going to tell those mothers to go out and get a job and put their kid in day-care? If you allow it for priests, the nuns will want it too, and then you have pregnancy and maternity leave. and childrearing etc. Then what happens when a marriage goes bad? They couldn't require them to only marry a faithful Catholic, so the possibility of divorces, ex-wives, child support, etc. etc. The church is not designed for priests and nuns to be spouses and parents, so it would be a major change that would carry a big expense along with the adjustment.
I think they've painted themselves into a corner and there is no easy, painless way out. They should have never started down this road in the first place. |
Your opinions are your own, they have no basis in any fact or reality. Finances have nothing to do with why priest don't marry. There is just no data to support your theory.
Just because celibacy seems unnatural to you, doesnt' justify making unfounded judgments. You think it seems a logical conclusion based on a belief that no one in their right mind would give up sex. But that kind of thinking does not take God into account. It leaves out the grace of God, and lacks understanding of such love and desire for Christ that nothing else matters.
Jesus says in Matthew 19:12 -- "Some are incapable of marriage because they were born so; some, because they were made so by others; some, because they have renounced marriage for the sake of the kingdom of heaven. Whoever can accept this ought to accept it."
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RedDog
Location: High Plains Gender: Male
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| Posted: 03/ 13/ 10 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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Would priests voluntarily submitting to castration be a possible solution? Hey, it's their "religion", not mine.
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