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 karolJoined: 26 Apr 2008 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown
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 Posted: 07/ 08/ 08 8:25 pm Post subject: Was Morgentaler ever at Auschwitz??? |
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Was Morgentaler ever at Auschwitz???
The "tattooed" number 95077 that Morgentaler remembers so well seems to be way too low. He allegedly arrived at Auschwitz in summer of 1944. Henryk Mandelbaum who arrived at Auschwitz on April 10, 1944 had number 181970.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/abortion/morgentaler.html
A Polish Jew who survived the Auschwitz death camp (where he was tattooed with number 95077), Morgentaler has pointed many times to what he saw as one of the root causes of Hitler’s death machine – unwanted children who were fighting back against a family that abused them.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/series/morgentaler/
In 1944, Henry, his brother and their mother were rounded up and shipped to Auschwitz. His number isn't tattooed on his arm because, by then, the Nazis were too rushed. “But I remember my number: 95077.”
http://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/20080617137021/wire/world-news/henryk-mandelbaum-auschwitz-survivor-forced-to-strip-fellow-jews-dies-at-85.html
He was forced to do the work from his arrival in Auschwitz, at age 21, on April 10, 1944, until January 1945, when the Nazis forced him and other fit inmates on a death march to flee the advancing Red Army. The Soviets liberated the camp on Jan. 27, 1945, finding the weak and sick left behind.
During his months in the camp, Mandelbaum - inmate number 181970 - witnessed the death of some of the 400,000 Jews brought in transports from Hungary in the summer of 1944, and handled their dead bodies. |
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Fabulous Fred
Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 08 8:47 pm Post subject: |
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Would a baby mass murderer lie?
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RedDog
Location: Red Neck Deer Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 08 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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This is utterly irrelevant and has absolutely nothing to do with the law in Canada in 2008.
Frankly, I suspect every living soul in Europe in the 1940's was lying through their teeth hourly in the pursuit of pure survival.
That being the case, I'd like to know if there's a single shred of detail on this maniac's immigration documents that would render him stripped and deported.
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Opinions expressed by RedDog on Free Dominion are those of RedDog alone and are in no way intended to represent the views of Free Dominion, its principals or moderators.
Some bacon a day keeps the muslims away. 2010 Red Sox Nation Citizen and Gubernatorial Candidate |
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Caper29b
Joined: 11 Jan 2006 Total posts: 930 Location: New Yawk Age: 40 Gender: Male
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 08 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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You're ASSuming the numbers were given in sequential order.
http://www.ushmm.org/wlc/article.php?lang=en&ModuleId=10007056
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| karol Joined: 26 Apr 2008 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 08/ 08 10:43 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks, that was very helpful as the only way Morgentaler could get away with his lie would be if Germans were to recycle their numbers. According to the link that you provided it never happen with Jewish prisoners, and yes numbers were assigned not only in sequential but also in alphabetical order (going by last name of prisoner) in each transport that arrived.
http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/new/index.php?language=PL&tryb=szukaj
Paritally salvaged Auschwitz Records show 297 finds of numbers in 95xxx range. Many entries indicate that prisoner died in March or April of 1943. Some were shot dead on 19 of February of 1943, others were shot after an escape attempt on 13 of February of 1943
Close numbers
Abelowicz, Chaim
ur.28.10.1910 (Słonim), numer obozowy:95043, zawód:krawiec
Pulchny, Stanisław
ur.17.4.1915 (Głogoczów), numer obozowy:95103, zawód:rolnik
Mijas, Leon
ur.19.1.1921 (Ruda Białaczowska), numer obozowy:95176, zawód:górnik
Czerwieniak, Asafan
ur.1912 (Wierchomnia), numer obozowy:95236, uwagi:rozstrz. 19.2.1943 w Au
Czerwieniak, Jan
, numer obozowy:95235, uwagi:zm. 30.8.1943 w Au |
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| karol Joined: 26 Apr 2008 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 6:45 am Post subject: |
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It seems that Morgentaler cannot remember who and when liberated him from hands of his Nazi tormentors, and he cannot remember if his mother died on a train or was killed in gas chamber.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/series/morgentaler/
"His brother's ashes have been scattered at Auschwitz joining those of their mother, who was on the same death train as her sons but never came out."
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/02/f-vp-mallick.html
I remember what Morgentaler has told me about Lodz, about how he had a repeated dream of being surrounded by Nazi guards in uniform. In 1944, he was taken to Auschwitz by train, his mother was sent off for immediate gassing, and he scarcely survived his time there, literally dodging bullets in the last days of the Second World War.
http://www.jewishtoronto.net/page.aspx?id=106451
Two men fell in love with Rosenfarb during those difficult years: the young Henry Morgentaler, who dreamed of becoming a doctor, and Bono Wiener, five years older than her, who was a leader of the illegal resistance against the Germans in the ghetto.
In April 1945, she and Morgantaler were liberated from Bergen Belsen and smuggled themselves into Belgium where they were not allowed to work.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/abortion/morgentaler.html
After his liberation from Auschwitz, Morgentaler won a scholarship and used it to study medicine in Germany. The new doctor and his wife emigrated to Canada in 1950 and settled in Montreal, where he practised family medicine, embraced humanism and enjoyed life. |
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| karol Joined: 26 Apr 2008 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Was Morgentaler ever at Auschwitz??? If not, did he lied to us about his medical education in Germany??? Did he become an abortionist in an effort to cover up his ignorance of medicine that was showing in his general "medical" practice????
After less than 3 years at University of Montreal Morgentaler got his diploma as medical doctor. Where did he study prior to that? Was it in Germany or Belgium???
http://www.cpso.on.ca/Doctor_Search/summary.asp?Type=ADV&intCurrentPage=1&sNameRefNo=0025139
Easy Search Advanced Search
Summary
Doctor's Name: Morgentaler, Henry
Summary Information
Registration Number: 29962
Surname: Morgentaler
Given Name: Henry
Gender: Male
Accepting New Patients: Yes
Current Registration: Independent Practice
Certificate Issued on: 14 Jun 1978
Registration Status: Active Member
Effective From: 14 Jun 1978
Graduated From: University of Montreal
Year Graduated: 1953
Primary Practice Address: 727 Hillsdale Avenue East
Toronto ON M4S 1V4
Canada
Phone Number(s): (416) 932-0446
Fax Number: (416) 932-0837
Specialties NONE
Hospital Privileges: NONE
Language(s) Fluent: ENGLISH
FRENCH
GERMAN
ITALIAN
POLISH
SPANISH
YIDDISH |
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styky
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:22 pm Post subject: |
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I find this thread to be way over the line. Attack a man for what he believes in and what he does. But this attack is uncalled for.
The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. If he was not infact there it would have come out decades ago.
Karol you are testing my patience and they are about at their limit. 
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"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
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littleharbour
Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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| styky wrote: | I find this thread to be way over the line. Attack a man for what he believes in and what he does. But this attack is uncalled for.
The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. If he was not infact there it would have come out decades ago.
Karol you are testing my patience and they are about at their limit. |
I disagree Styky. If there is no record of Morgentaller and, conveniently, no tatoo, how can it be disproved that he was there? The survivors of Auschwitz were emaciated and traumatized, so the likelihood of finding someone who would have a complete recollection of who was and wasn't present in that camp is unlikely. How did he survive until he was 21 before being put in a camp? The motivation is certainly there for Morgentaller to have lied about his past, as it creates instant sympathy and immediately disarms his critics. I don't know the facts of this, but it's certainly worth scrutiny. If Morgentaller lied about his past to gain sympathy for his Canadian butchery, people should know. Personally, given his post-war deeds, if Morgentaller ever set foot in Auschwitz I'd have an easier time believing that it was for the purpose of helping the nazis stuff the ovens than as a prisoner. Frankly, I'd like to know the truth. |
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| karol Joined: 26 Apr 2008 Total posts: 223 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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Styky,
Tell a lie big enough and nobody will ever challange you.
Evidence that Morgentaler is a medical fraudster is everywhere. He kept his distance from other doctors in Canada just so he would never be discovered as a medical fraud from the very start of his "medical" practice.
He preferred to keep company of medical ignorants who would never rat on him and this is why he created The Humanist Association of Canada.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/series/morgentaler/
Thanks to a cousin, he and his then-wife Chava, whom he had known since childhood, were able to set sail for the “new world” in 1950. They chose Montreal. Yes, he encountered anti-Semitism at the Université de Montréal, but this was nothing new. He decided not to join the Jewish General Hospital, where other Jewish doctors congregated, and he did not specialize. He liked his patients and chose to become a general practitioner.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanist_Association_of_Canada
The Humanist Association of Canada (HAC) is a national, not-for-profit charitable organization that promotes secular Humanism. Founded in Montreal in 1968.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080701.ORDERSB01/TPStory/National
KEY MOMENTS
1967
As the spokesman of the Humanist Society, Henry Morgentaler delivers an impassioned speech to the House of Commons health and welfare committee, urging members to repeal abortion laws. |
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| Lynda Joined: 02 May 2006 Total posts: 697 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I find this thread disturbing. I agree with styky this has nothing to do with his beliefs or the reason that he got the order.
Character assassination is not a valid argument. Attack the issue, not the person!!
BTW being a young at the camp meant many people would bend rules, create identities, etc. especially during the last days of the war, there was many irregularities (since people realized they were no longer under the thumb of Nazism)! |
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Spud
Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| littleharbour wrote: | | styky wrote: | I find this thread to be way over the line. Attack a man for what he believes in and what he does. But this attack is uncalled for.
The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. If he was not infact there it would have come out decades ago.
Karol you are testing my patience and they are about at their limit. |
I disagree Styky. If there is no record of Morgentaller and, conveniently, no tatoo, how can it be disproved that he was there? The survivors of Auschwitz were emaciated and traumatized, so the likelihood of finding someone who would have a complete recollection of who was and wasn't present in that camp is unlikely. How did he survive until he was 21 before being put in a camp? The motivation is certainly there for Morgentaller to have lied about his past, as it creates instant sympathy and immediately disarms his critics. I don't know the facts of this, but it's certainly worth scrutiny. If Morgentaller lied about his past to gain sympathy for his Canadian butchery, people should know. Personally, given his post-war deeds, if Morgentaller ever set foot in Auschwitz I'd have an easier time believing that it was for the purpose of helping the nazis stuff the ovens than as a prisoner. Frankly, I'd like to know the truth. |
I agree, I’d like to know too.
I saw part of the CBC program showing Morgentaller revisiting Auschwitz. Since then I’ve been a tad suspicious. To me, his response to the death camp was…well…bad acting.
To add fuel to the fire, Canadian Encyclopedia states that Morgentaller was also at Dachau. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005437
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styky
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| Spud wrote: | | littleharbour wrote: | | styky wrote: | I find this thread to be way over the line. Attack a man for what he believes in and what he does. But this attack is uncalled for.
The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. If he was not infact there it would have come out decades ago.
Karol you are testing my patience and they are about at their limit. |
I disagree Styky. If there is no record of Morgentaller and, conveniently, no tatoo, how can it be disproved that he was there? The survivors of Auschwitz were emaciated and traumatized, so the likelihood of finding someone who would have a complete recollection of who was and wasn't present in that camp is unlikely. How did he survive until he was 21 before being put in a camp? The motivation is certainly there for Morgentaller to have lied about his past, as it creates instant sympathy and immediately disarms his critics. I don't know the facts of this, but it's certainly worth scrutiny. If Morgentaller lied about his past to gain sympathy for his Canadian butchery, people should know. Personally, given his post-war deeds, if Morgentaller ever set foot in Auschwitz I'd have an easier time believing that it was for the purpose of helping the nazis stuff the ovens than as a prisoner. Frankly, I'd like to know the truth. |
I agree, I’d like to know too.
I saw part of the CBC program showing Morgentaller revisiting Auschwitz. Since then I’ve been a tad suspicious. To me, his response to the death camp was…well…bad acting.
To add fuel to the fire, Canadian Encyclopedia states that Morgentaller was also at Dachau. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005437 |
What kind of reaction would you prefer?
Dad was in Stalag Luft III and walked 2 death marches in the dead of winter with no food for over 600 miles. He only rarely mentioned it and when he spoke it was more like day camp and a walk in the park. It was not till after his death that we read his papers and found out that horrific story he had.
_________________
FREE DOMINION FORUM RULES
All the great things are simple, and many can be expressed in a single word: freedom; justice; honor; duty; mercy; hope ~ Sir Winston Churchill
"The problem with socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher |
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| bsn Joined: 29 Jun 2004 Total posts: 155 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Wow, liberated from Auschwitz in January 1945, Bergen Belsen in April 1945, & Dachau as well!!!!!
Truely an amazing man, and so lucky as to have been liberated at least twice; I'm sure that most of the inmates were content to have been liberated merely once.
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We need to hang together. Otherwise we will all hang seperately. |
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Spud
Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 07/ 09/ 08 1:38 pm Post subject: |
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| styky wrote: | | Spud wrote: | | littleharbour wrote: | | styky wrote: | I find this thread to be way over the line. Attack a man for what he believes in and what he does. But this attack is uncalled for.
The Germans were meticulous at keeping records. If he was not infact there it would have come out decades ago.
Karol you are testing my patience and they are about at their limit. |
I disagree Styky. If there is no record of Morgentaller and, conveniently, no tatoo, how can it be disproved that he was there? The survivors of Auschwitz were emaciated and traumatized, so the likelihood of finding someone who would have a complete recollection of who was and wasn't present in that camp is unlikely. How did he survive until he was 21 before being put in a camp? The motivation is certainly there for Morgentaller to have lied about his past, as it creates instant sympathy and immediately disarms his critics. I don't know the facts of this, but it's certainly worth scrutiny. If Morgentaller lied about his past to gain sympathy for his Canadian butchery, people should know. Personally, given his post-war deeds, if Morgentaller ever set foot in Auschwitz I'd have an easier time believing that it was for the purpose of helping the nazis stuff the ovens than as a prisoner. Frankly, I'd like to know the truth. |
I agree, I’d like to know too.
I saw part of the CBC program showing Morgentaller revisiting Auschwitz. Since then I’ve been a tad suspicious. To me, his response to the death camp was…well…bad acting.
To add fuel to the fire, Canadian Encyclopedia states that Morgentaller was also at Dachau. http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0005437 |
What kind of reaction would you prefer?
Dad was in Stalag Luft III and walked 2 death marches in the dead of winter with no food for over 600 miles. He only rarely mentioned it and when he spoke it was more like day camp and a walk in the park. It was not till after his death that we read his papers and found out that horrific story he had. |
We’re not talking about your Dad, styky.
If you’re comfortable believing Morgantaller, go ahead. For me, I watched the CBC special and I doubt him and to be honest I wouldn’t put anything past a low life baby murderer. Ex-abortionist Dr. Bernard Nathanson admitted the huge lies put forth by the pro abortion side. Why would you expect Mr. Morgantaller to be any different?
Am I saying that Morgantaller wasn’t at a death camp, of course not. What I am saying is that his behavior at the Auschwitz tour was abnormal and unconvincing. Like I wrote before, it appeared as bad acting.
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