Should Canada Pension Plan Participation Be Voluntary?

[Clinton P. Desveaux]

So individuals whom work in the retail sector, or food service, or any number of low-paying jobs do not deserve to be able to comfortably retire after "getting a job" for 50 years? Just because they didn't become doctors or lawyers with six figure salaries does not mean they do not deserve a comfortable old age.

The key question is SHOULD EI/CPP BE VOLUNTARY, which means, if you don't want to pay into it you can opt out, but if you want to have the same CPP/EI, you can.It just means you have the option available to decide whether you as an individual can opt out of the CPP/EI.We are not saying abolish the EI/CPP, we are just saying, mak it VOLUNTARY.

Good points

[Faramir]

When you think about it what really hits one in the pocket is not just our taxes, but the Payroll taxes. For instance when I worked in a union my effective rates would have been:

1) EI - 2%
2) CPP - 5%
3) union dues - 2%
4) effective tax rate - 13%
5) pension - 6%

All those numbers really add up.

[khori_wan_kenobi]

Adonick wrote:
Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

I agree with you up to a point.

I think a retirement plan should be mandatory, however, I don't agree that the CPP itself should be that plan.

I'd rather a plan where people could opt out of making CPP payments as long as they open an RRSP.

I agree with you that if there wasn't mandatory payments into a retirement plan, that millions of people would never save for their retirement. I grew up among low-income, low-education tenements and those people just don't think beyond the next 48 hours.

So in my opinion it comes down to: do we want people paying into and financing their own mandatory retirement or do we want millions of seniors to receive welfare?

[khori_wan_kenobi]

Why is there a "contribution ceiling" under this lowest common denominator nanny structure? What business of government is it how much I choose to put away for the future?

Be glad there is a ceiling, otherwise they'd be taxing you even more which would remove the possibility of contributing to an RRSP.

[Faith Hope and Love]

ABSOLUTELY!!

[rbacon]

Considering that the elected thieves in Ottawa have collected and spent all the funds, and the taxpayer is now on the hook for 1.4B for the Quebec and CPP I would say it should be voluntary for idiots, and a jail sentence for all recent Finance Ministers and Prime Ministers that stole these funds from the Companies and workers that contributed to these shakedown rackets.....

[rbacon]

Sorry math correction the total owed is 1.4T or 1,400,000,000,000.00 Canadian taxdollars.....

[Adonick]

The lack of compassion for the helpless and/or downtrodden in this thread would thoroughly shame Mr. Cash.

[Manganic]

The lack of compassion for the helpless and/or downtrodden in this thread would thoroughly shame Mr. Cash.

I have loads of compassion; and if I choose to donate my money to a charitable organization out of compassion, that should be my own personal business.

I don't need or want a government to dictate to me how my money gets used (which is what tax is.)

[Adonick]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

Because I do not believe the average Canadian can afford to save for retirement, and it serves as a basic safety net for the elderly, whom, in my opinion, deserve to be taken care of for their years of hard work.

Take for example a lifelong retail employee. I highly doubt that they can afford a fancy retirement package - and they do one of the most thankless jobs.

I am very pro-market, but it can't solve everything. Sometimes a touch of compassion is necessary in the right places.

But most people own homes, get jobs, and buy food, so why would they not be able to plan for retirement? You take a rather shallow view of individuals.

A large segment of society mortgages their home, both work, buy food, and still live from paycheque to paycheque. I would suggest that most people would struggle to put together any reasonable amount of money towards a retirement plan that may last two decades. If you don't believe that's the case, I feel you live a world of books rather than dealing with the average person.

I consider myself to be an average person.

I manage to do all of the above, and I don't live from paycheque to paycheque. I don't drive a particulary flashy car, I don't have a big-screen plasma TV, and my two computers are old beaters.

I put money away for retirement, buy food, pay my mortgage, car loan, and take a vacation from time to time.

It is possible; people just have to prioritize.

"Broke" is temporary. Poverty is a state of mind.

Relying on the government to look after you is a poverty mentality.

I won't bring up a large body personal evidence in a public forum, but I can tell you that, at least out here in the East, I've never been to a home as of yet that has a plasma TV - although I'm sure they sell.

When you consider real expenses for perhaps a family of 3, maybe dad works full time retail, and mom part time. Rent, utilities, food.

Not much is left for fancy RRSP's. And a lot of Eastern Canadians serve trade jobs and still make $25,000 or so.

There's simply no money left to put away for anything. Our family vacations, were to the South Shore - Summerville Beach, while both my parents worked. Tiny home, in the beginning we all slept in the same room.

Things, for some people, especially the truly working poor, are still desperate. No amount of tax strategy will ameliorate that. I do not mind paying for the natural humanity to provide our seniors with a comfortable retirement.

[Clinton P. Desveaux]

The lack of compassion for the helpless and/or downtrodden in this thread would thoroughly shame Mr. Cash.

You and others could choose to opt in the Canada Pension Plan if you feel guilty about making your own choices. Furthermore I have loads of compassion; and if I choose to donate my money to a charitable organization out of compassion, that should be my own personal business not that of you or the state.

[rbacon]

Adonick were is your compassion for the workers that have paid in Billions and GUbmint thieves have spent it all and left us with a 1.4 Trillion public debt in relation to CPP and QPP. All those funds collected from workers and companies was rolled into General revenues of Ottawa and spent to buy votes mostly for the Liberals who have been in power the longest....And those older workers are now being gouged heavily to make up the balance....This is worse than Enron and no one will go to jail in Canada...Just like Adscam, in Canada the Liberals even picked their own judge Gomery and Chretien et al were never touched...The younger workers will probably never collect....Alberta is talking of starting their own Alberta Pension Plan if it is mandatory, but invested privately it might work, at least if their is theft or mismanagement someone will be held accountable....CPP and the QPP is a scam...

[Clinton P. Desveaux]

Adonick were is your compassion for the workers that have paid in Billions and GUbmint thieves have spent it all and left us with a 1.4 Trillion public debt in relation to CPP and QPP. All those funds collected from workers and companies was rolled into General revenues of Ottawa and spent to buy votes mostly for the Liberals who have been in power the longest....And those older workers are now being gouged heavily to make up the balance....This is worse than Enron and no one will go to jail in Canada...Just like Adscam, in Canada the Liberals even picked their own judge Gomery and Chretien et al were never touched...The younger workers will probably never collect....Alberta is talking of starting their own Alberta Pension Plan if it is mandatory, but invested privately it might work, at least if their is theft or mismanagement someone will be held accountable....CPP and the QPP is a scam...

Great points

[SaskBigPicture]

It should absolutely be voluntary. Those of us in our 20's and 30's have no reason to trust that this ponzi scheme will still be around when we turn 65 and we have worked like pack mules all our lives throwing our blood, sweat and tears into the Ottawa money pit.

I would relish the thought of having more of my paycheck available for financial planning in investments I have chosen. To hell with welfare state pyramid schemes.

My wife and I use Quicken personal financial software to track every cent we make and spend, and when we track the deductions from our paychecks, we categorize income tax, CPP and EI in one category. We call it all tax.

[adamgreenwood]

The problem with making it voluntary is that all the deadbeats that are desperate for cash will opt out.

Then, 30 years later when they are too old to work and have no savings, they are going to expect the government to bail them out.

And what sort of government do you think we are likely to have in 30 years, the way things are going? A government who says: 'too bad, you should have thought of that before - now starve' - or a government who makes sure all its citizens are able to survive?

So, given that, I think it is critical that government forces people to save money for themselves. That being said, there are plenty of reforms that could be made that allow people to invest on their own.