Stock Day: "Registry will be scrapped", CFC employ

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Re: windy cookier

Postby Akimoya » 03/ 04/ 06 6:59 pm

Denner wrote:From Wendy Cukier (excerpt from above)

"However, Wendy Cukier, president of the Coalition for Gun Control, said the registry has helped improve public safety.

"It's true that rifles and shotguns aren't used today as frequently as handguns in murders, but that was not the case 15 years ago," she told CTV.ca. "And one of the reasons why murders with rifles and shotguns have declined so precipitously is because of the stronger controls on them."

A PERFECT example of how she does it....lies that is.

Follow this: (Taken from the CFCentres' OWN website in 1997)


Is this the "Hung, K, Firearm statistics. Ottawa: Research and Statistics Division, Department of Justice Canada; 1997 Oct." report?

I've got it up on one of my webpages at:

http://home.cogeco.ca/~akimoya/stats/fi ... index.html

"Types of Firerms used in Homicides.", 1974-1997
"Number and % of All Firearm Homicides"


What she doesn't say is that there have been at most 756 murders, and as few as 538 murders in Canada, fluctuation up and down over that span of time...and that these murders are almost equally and consistantly divided between stabbing, clubbing and shooting.

We have a *minuscule* number of murders in this country, 2/3rds of which are committed with something other than a gun.

The 'Wendy's' don't explain or admit that BEFORE "15 years ago" the percentages were DROPPING (from "64%" in 1974, to "56%" in 1988, and sat at 8% LESS than in 1974 @ that point.) They take the CLOSEST (to today) BIG AMOUNT (%) which was CHERRYPICKED as 1989.

They do not tell that it was DROPPING BEFORE that date, nor do they even point out that it was going UP AGAIN in '96, and '97 IN SPITE of ALL and ANY laws they had come up with!


Not to mention her entire argument is based on the fallacy of "post hoc, ergo propter hoc": since something follows a thing, the thing must be responsible for what follows. The one thing that every statistics major learns is that "correlation is not causation" - there are thousands of other factors that could be the cause of the drop in long gun murders, or murders in general, etc, etc, etc. My bet is the most important factor is the ecomony, followed by the aging of the population out of the most crime prone years of 15-24.

Dictionary: To mislead; "To deceive by causing to infer something not actually true." "To lie."


How can you tell when a liberal gun grabber is lying?

Their lips move.
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Postby homeandnativeland » 03/ 04/ 06 10:13 pm

It took some time to defeat the liberals. The battle is not over yet with a minority government and the suspicion of the "hidden agenda".

We have been brainwashed by 40 years of "progressive" :? government
and won't be fixing it overnight.

We need to have patience and faith. Sounds like a religion doesn't it

Hey Reverend Akimoya what do you think of ceremonial AR-15's?

But seriously, keep up the good fight, if a minority like the Cartoon protesting Muslims can get such results so can we in time.

What would the legal ramifications be of starting a Free Dominion Militia?
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Postby rbacon » 03/ 04/ 06 10:31 pm

Read your Common Law Rights, it is legal County by County.
If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen. -- Samuel Adams, speech at the Philadelphia State House, August 1, 1776--"If You Haven't Suffered Enough It Is Your God Given Right To Suffer Some More" Wm. Aberhart Alberta Premier
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Postby homeandnativeland » 03/ 07/ 06 1:51 pm

rbacon wrote:Read your Common Law Rights, it is legal County by County.


do you have a link I could start with?
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Postby reformthesystem » 03/ 07/ 06 2:55 pm

There should be no short gun registry either and this is not in the spirit of what conservatives have been talking about for years. Do not disarm the populace vis a vis the totalitarian governments.

What is needed to control gun violence is interdiction of guns at the border and stiffer gun crime sentencing with tigher controls on immigration.
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registry

Postby Denner » 03/ 07/ 06 4:02 pm

"There should be no short gun registry either and this is not in the spirit of what conservatives have been talking about for years. Do not disarm the populace vis a vis the totalitarian governments."

When they dump the 'long-gun registry' they are admitting that it doesn't work and is too costly.

So how come they aren't dumping BOTH? (as if we didn't know.)
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Postby Droid1963 » 03/ 10/ 06 11:58 pm

From the CFC site:

What are the consequences for not renewing my licence before the expiry date?
If your licence expires before we receive your renewal application:

-If you possess firearms, you will be in illegal possession of firearms, your registration certificates may be revoked, and you will then have to legally dispose of your firearms, since a person cannot legally own a firearm without a valid firearms licence.
-If you own prohibited firearms and your registration certificates are revoked, you will permanently lose your grandfathering privileges to keep those firearms since you would not be in continuous possession of a registration certificate for prohibited firearms;
-If you have a Possession Only Licence (POL), it will not be renewable and you will have to apply for a Possession and Acquisition Licence which requires you to meet the firearm safety training requirements;
-If you have a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL), instead of submitting the streamlined renewal form, you will now have to submit a new initial application CAFC 921.


HA! All of which of course, is designed to protect Canadians from gun-related crime....
Hurry up and scrap this useless piece of junk!
The above is MY OPINION, and DOES NOT NECESSARILY REFLECT THE OPINIONS OF THE OWNERSHIP OF FREE DOMINION.
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Postby Psycho » 03/ 11/ 06 2:52 am

It's a very simple concept. Scrap the gun registry.

License + register people who have passed gun training. Monitor those people to ensure if they get convicted of certain crimes, their license is pulled.

Then change the laws so that anybody not licensed who carries a gun gets an automatic year in jail.

Anybody (licensed or not) who is convicted of a crime involving a gun gets an automatic five year (added onto) whatever penalty they receive...

No bargaining - the sentence is non-negotiable... :a-smoke:
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Postby Wlyonmackenzie » 03/ 11/ 06 10:15 am

C.Morgan wrote:

In a minority government, still not complicated.

An order in council and it is gone.

There is no excuse for stalling.


Incorrect assessment Cory...I think your distain for Harper has clouded your reasoning and objectivity.

First, the government isn't even sitting...what's this about "stalling".

Second, the most onerous parts of C-68 (now the firearms act and criminal code) CANNOT be changed by OIC ( order in council)...only the regulations concerning costs, frequency of renewal etc. can be changed but the requirement to licence and register is still in the law until it is repealed by parliament.

Third: The firearms act allows for broad ministerial amnesties...which will put anyone not in 100% compliance to the unreasonable administrative demands of the CFC and the FA, beyond prosecution....until such time as the sections that criminalize them can be repealed.

If you want to blame someone for stalling the dismantling of the registry and decriminalization of civilian sporting arms ownership, look to the Liberals and NDP and Bloc who are in love with anti-constitutional micro management of the population...they are the ones who will "stall" any repeal of the existing law....unless they can be persuaded to agree that worthless laws and regulatory regimes like the FA are about people control not crime control and have their basis in autocratic UN global governance rather than the axioms of domestic common law.
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive; those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis, In Freedom .

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If you serve you get to carry

Postby Monkey King » 03/ 11/ 06 10:54 am

I propose that if one served in the Canadian Military that he be granted a lifetime right to carry concealed handguns.
This would have an imitate effect on crime I believe. What do you think? Pros and cons.
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Postby Wlyonmackenzie » 03/ 11/ 06 12:46 pm

Psycho wrote:It's a very simple concept. Scrap the gun registry.

License + register people who have passed gun training. Monitor those people to ensure if they get convicted of certain crimes, their license is pulled.

Then change the laws so that anybody not licensed who carries a gun gets an automatic year in jail.

Anybody (licensed or not) who is convicted of a crime involving a gun gets an automatic five year (added onto) whatever penalty they receive...

No bargaining - the sentence is non-negotiable... :a-smoke:
.


The Policy was to "repeal" the C-68 amendments to the firearms act. We have been told that this cannot happen in a minority situation because of opposition.

The entire CPC firearms policy is in the member ratified policy statements.( which mysteriously went missing from the CPC web site to be replaced by the "policy" book at election time...fortunately I have my copy of the finalized, member ratified policy book)

The CPC's civilian firearms policy was amended and approved at the policy convention to specifically REMOVE the licencing proponent in dealing with legal firearms ownership and activities. The policy is specific that a "screening system" will take place under a certification of fitness to access....a certificate issued to the accepted applicant will be good for life unless convicted of a crime. Federal "Licencing" is a legal dispensation for dealing with contraband and illegal activities and peacfully owning a firearm for legitimate purposes is not illegal activity...it need not be treated as such. Going from a firearms access certification system to an ownership "licence" is the legal vehicle used to criminalize the simple non criminal possession of firearms and bring the subject into the purview of the federal criminal law making jurisdiction.

We will not be going back down that road with replacement legislation.

However, I notice that the original Member-approved CPC firearms policy ( and the member-approved policy book) were taken down on the CPC site and the "platform" document now takes its place.

There are some interesting discrepencies and additions to the CPC firearms "platform" which were done arbitrarily outside deference to the member approved policies.

http://media.conservative.ca/video/2006 ... atform.pdf

You will notice on page 23-24 of the platform book, that the handgun registry( and more importantly the firearms classification system which bans, restricts and prohibits firearms ownership based in irelevant cosmetic characteristics, which then criminalizes your property) has been added to CPC supported policy....this was NOT approved by the membership and I can state authoritatively that the group of delegates who formulated and went to the convention to amend and ratify the civilian sporting firearms policy voted to accept it BECAUSE the handgun registry and "firearms classification system" was not mentioned and was not supported as being retained...as it was specifically left out of 2004/2005/ policy statements and the proposed, amended and accepted policy statements of 2006...I went back to confirm that support for hand gun registry and firearms classification systems were not mentioned in ANY of my CPC "interim" policy documents which we worked from prior to the policy convention mandate.... It was not mentioned as being supported!

We ( firearms owners groups who supported CPC) were led to believe that CPC would have to, by default, decriminalize civilian hand guns because civilian long guns were being decriminalized and regulation given back to the provinces as stated in the policy ( the provinces HAVE to administer regulation for ownership to be decriminalized)....it is an act of constitutional inconsistancy to claim that long gun regulation belongs in provincial misdemenor jurisdiction but hand guns remain criminal and regualted by federal criminal law making power.

Rationally there is no special feature that makes a hand gun any more deadly or dangerous than a long gun....thus the rationale for the firearms classification system is pure bunk and a remnant of the police state control regime which statist liberals, and their paid lobbyists, wanted to turn reasonable civilain fireams law into.

Someone in the leader's office has "sweetened up" the firearms policy for sale during the election...and they did it without consulting the membership, firearms owners groups or even a competent constitutional lawyer....I'm sure Garry Breitkreuz ( the party's expert on the gun law) was not consulted.

It would appear that lawful firearms owners have been sold out again to the will of those departmental policy termites who run and admire police state solutions to responsible civilian firearms ownership.


A further indication of the CPC leadership keeping an arms length approach to firearms owners is evidenced by putting Day into the position of CFC capo......a position Breitkreuz is far more qualified to hold. But Garry is a high profile champion of responsible firearms owners and civilian property rights, obviously, Harper does not want to be accused of courting the "gun lobby" ( all 15 of us) or those "radicals" that actually think they and not the state have property rights. :roll:

I see a situation where an new government is trying desparately to find its feet on a massive learning curve...and they are getting bad advise in many areas which the membership and support base made quite clear what they wanted. The the party interests who campaigned for responsible change to the firearms act and the criminal code will have to become active interfacing with the new ministers to aid in their learning process.

If you like things the way they are being handled now...well just continue to sit on your hands...if not, get busy calling/writing your MP, Vic Towes, Stock Day and politely and accuately address your concerns over their oversights. Stay on 'em until they deliver!

Frankly, until I see the CPC caucus schedule a firearms act stakeholder's meeting with these ministers and firearms users groups, the provinces and commercial firerms dealers, I'll remain sceptical as to how much priority they place on fulfilling promises to fireams owners.....I recall the sweet talk from Mulroney to fireams groups and the dismal record of his justice ministers in coping with the subject...they legislated in a vacuum with no input from stake holders ( even Trudeau didn't do this)...that is part of the reason we are in the mess we are in today.....bureaucrats taking a police state approach to control peaceful civilian activites then legislating without proper consultayion of the groups the law impacts.
Last edited by Wlyonmackenzie on 11/ 15/ 06 6:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: If you serve you get to carry

Postby Wlyonmackenzie » 03/ 11/ 06 12:49 pm

Monkey King wrote:I propose that if one served in the Canadian Military that he be granted a lifetime right to carry concealed handguns.
This would have an imitate effect on crime I believe. What do you think? Pros and cons.


Another CPC EDA policy amendment that went to the editing room floor was a proposal to "grandfather" all firearms owners who had owned firearms 10 consecutive years with no infractions or convictions....that one didn't make it past the regional policy scrum because a lot of good policy had to be cut as the EDAs and regions were limited in the number of policies/amendments they could submit...some had a limit of just 5...obviously there were things more important than workable gun control so things were cut ...we did manage to get 2 good amendments to the firearms policy from Alberta and Saskachewan and a final amendment that scrapped the licencing system.....but there could have been more.

This shows the need for Day and Towes to hold a stake holder's meeting to come up to speed on what parts of the law unreasonably damage and abuse lawful owners......so far the only voices tutoring these CPC ministers come from the former liberal firearms control bureaucracy....hmmmmmmmm think they might get one sided adivice from these sources?
Last edited by Wlyonmackenzie on 11/ 15/ 06 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Of all tyrannies a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive; those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end, for they do so with the approval of their own conscience. - C.S. Lewis, In Freedom .

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gun control

Postby noel » 09/ 24/ 06 1:51 pm

let,s be smart for a change and launch a class action suite against government bureocracy for violating our charter of rights and freedoms. we as a group are being discriminated against, our lives are put in danger by gung ho police who have in the past broke down doors in the middle of the night and put loaded guns to the head of some poor soul in one case a 94 year old man.. where are our rights? it,s a shame that some police forces are better armed than our troops in afghanistan.. i resent the fact that i must be registered as i i was a criminal. if you must register something start with liberal politicians and real criminals..noel
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Postby MinorityReport » 09/ 24/ 06 2:06 pm

Psycho wrote:It's a very simple concept. Scrap the gun registry.

License + register people who have passed gun training. Monitor those people to ensure if they get convicted of certain crimes, their license is pulled.

Then change the laws so that anybody not licensed who carries a gun gets an automatic year in jail.

Anybody (licensed or not) who is convicted of a crime involving a gun gets an automatic five year (added onto) whatever penalty they receive...

No bargaining - the sentence is non-negotiable... :a-smoke:
.


No Way!That actually makes sense,we can't have that. :lol:
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Postby styky » 11/ 02/ 06 1:35 pm

Day still wants to abolish gun registry, but is vague on cost savings
OTTAWA (CP) - Public Safety Minister Stockwell Day says he's still committed to abolishing the federal long-gun registry because it's inefficient and costs too much to operate.

But he was unable to tell a parliamentary committee exactly how much money the Conservative government hopes to save by doing away with the registry.

The RCMP, which administers the program, was also hesitant to come to a bottom line.

There are estimates, however, that the annual savings could be something under 20 per cent of the roughly $14.5 million it currently costs to register all types of weapons across Canada.

Day's comments came a day after he promised to meet with a Dawson College student who is lobbying Ottawa to strengthen gun control in the wake of the shooting spree at the Montreal school earlier this year.

The minister says he wants to concentrate on keeping guns out of the hands of dangerous people, rather than forcing law-abiding farmers and hunters to register their shotguns and rifles.

<a href=http://www.recorder.ca/cp/National/061102/n110227A.html>source</a>
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