After re-doing the prior thread about Amalgamation:

[Splendor Sine Occasu]

NO!!

[Hasdrubul]

Fore sorn I have a dream of a better people who are destined to be one nation. Canada is on a true joourney on the epic of time towards destiny to become American. It is not the end of Canada by joining the United States but one of celebrated history of two cultures becoming what is meant to be. The joining of two nations is one to represent the greatest journey from breakup to reunification, from hatred to a mutual understanding.

We are not two cultures but of many backgrounds that have our own dreams of hope and pride. Canada will never die as part of America. We will defend one another more strongly then ever before but Canadians will teach Americans to be more peaceful and Americans will teach Canadians to stand up for what they believe. It is our destiny to be one society. Canada will not die for when it becomes part of America it will always be taught to future generations what we were and are. We are American but we are also Canadian. Take pride as Canadians and take pride we are also American.

Dreams of a better world, dreams of something better for the people of both nations, dreams of our destiny. Canada will never die as long as we want it to live. Canada will be America as it always has been. For it is the will of time that will always stand still, to take a photo of that moment in time, dreaming of a better world. Canada will never die, it will always have a place in the history of America.

Our leaders shall never be forgotten, our ancestors who fought in the Revolutionary War against each other are side by side watching over all of us with their formwer enemies. Red Coats and Blue Coats side by side chanting for the day of reunification. Canada will never die as our societies began to merge, a new United States is on the horizon waiting to call Canada home. It is the will of destiny to heal our wounds and stand as one people to reunite the once divided.

[Monorprise]

Tell you what. Why not have the Excited states join Canada? Lets face it ,area wise we are bigger and the last time we had a dust up in 1812 you American Lads were sent packing.

Do you really want the parliamentary system to rule?
if we did that Canada would have no such say in Canadian affairs. the American System gives and protects rights of states, as each of them are solver entities within the United States.

So under the US system you would get more say, in congress via an elected Senate, and have more power, for electing national leaders Presidents, via electoral cottage.

It’s up to you man. To me the US system would almost certainly be a lot better for Canada than the parliamentary Dictatorship you’re currently working under. But by all means lets have this debate, I’ve already had it many times, which is why we suggest the US system.

[Hasdrubul]

Simple question to non unionists and be honest and not anti American:
Why do you oppose a union with the United States?

[Splendor Sine Occasu]

The same reason I would oppose union with Germany, France or Russia...

[Hasdrubul]

The same reason I would oppose union with Germany, France or Russia...

Can you elaborate a little more

[Muddy]

See my hat badge! For 144 years that badge has served this nation of Canada. There are a lot more regimental badges with proud members and ex members. It is our history. Canada`s! There is so much to be proud of in Canada. I want to preserve the glorious history and that of the United Empire loyalists. I am not anti American. I thank god you are our neighbours and I would not want anyone else. But separate countrys we must stay.

[Hasdrubul]

Welcoming Canada Home
A Treatise on the Peaceful Union of Canada with the United States
The following opinion piece was written for this site by Todd Sutherland of Mississauga, Ontario.

It's Been Done Before...
Throughout most of the history of the world, states seeking to enlarge themselves typically did so at the expense of one another. Conquered areas became colonies, slave states, or even faced murderous depopulation. Even as civilized a state as Rome basically rolled over its neighbors one after the other, to the very limits of its power, and often beyond. But in one regard, the Romans were different from the other powers who came before them, and most who followed. As Rome spread its language and civilization to other lands, it began to extend the Roman franchise to the peoples it had once conquered. In this way, Rome came to command the loyalties of people far beyond the walls of that ancient city, and even beyond Italy itself. Rome survived as an entity for most of a millenium due in part to this policy.

In this modern age, politics, economics, and human rights have brought us, for the most part, beyond the age of conquest. Today, nations and peoples are coming together to bring down the barriers that hem us in, hobble our trade, and make us strangers across frontiers. We see in Europe the beginnings of a larger federation, a successor to the Roman Empire, the empires of Charlemagne and Napoleon —— but this one built by the will of free peoples, working in concert with one another. A magnificent gamble that may pay off for hundreds of years to come.
In our quarter of the world, we find ourselves faced with a situation that is at once much simpler, and yet more complicated. A unity of North Americans is an idea simplified by geography and politics —— there are only two nations, with similar languages, cultures, and government systems involved —— and yet, curiously complicated by the distance of history.

The First American Civil War
Isn't the One You Think It Is...
Most US citizens don't conceive of the American Revolution as a civil war, but that is precisely what it was. Paul Revere did not cry "The British are coming!", because he was British. Paul Revere called out to the Minutemen to warn them "the regulars" —— meaning the army —— were coming. Startling as it may be to many US citizens today, thousands of Redcoats were in fact born on American soil. Samuel Adams once reckoned of the American Revolution that a third of the people supported it, a third opposed it, and the other third didn't care. As they would four score and seven years later in the Civil War, in the American Revolution, Americans fought and killed each other. Benjamin Franklin turned from his son William, the Loyalist governor of New Jersey, and never spoke to him again. The war divided Americans one from another, and at the end, those who opposed were forced to recant their opinions. Those who would not, headed north to the recently-conquered lands of New France, and founded Canada.
And so it remains to this day. Courteous, but apart. The children of the same mother, who agree to disagree about the old lady's habits. The centuries have brought a blurring, a merging of sorts, of two people who never really were different peoples. One might be forgiven for thinking that a complete union between these countries would be simple. But the fact is, Canada remains to a large extent what it was; a nation founded in opposition to a nation founded in opposition. Canadians are the cousins and brothers and sisters of US citizens —— figuratively and quite literally —— but with the license that can only come of consanguinity, they look for and point out the little differences that separate them and give them meaning as a nation, so similar, so close to another that looks so much like home. And these are difficult habits to overcome.
As for the people of the United States, was there ever one born who didn't secretly wish to sprinkle a few more stars across his flag? Was there ever a US schoolchild who looked at the map and didn't yearn to complete the work started in 1776? Deep in their hearts, most people in the United States think of Canadians as quirky kinsmen, people who belong with them; and think of the United States, as a result, as a land incomplete. Alaska, hanging off Canada into the Pacific, is the eloquent proof of that sentiment to anyone with eyes to see.
And yet the Canadians remain quietly, oddly aloof. But if it's true that everyone in the US dreams of more stars, then it's equally true that Canadian children grow up wondering why they are, ever so slightly, the outsiders in their own culture. To grow up Canadian in the 1970s was to grow up watching Schoolhouse Rock, being stirred by the song they made of the Preamble, and then learning that it was not yours —— in fact, that you were represented by the cartoon demons in scarlet uniforms being driven into the sea by pitchfork-wielding Patriots. Was there ever a Canadian born who, in his secret heart of hearts, didn't think of his country slipping away to join the US, something oh-so-obvious that somehow never came to pass? Like virgins of old in fear of their virtue, Canadians find new ways to fear the United States —— something they've grown very good at —— lest they indulge themselves in the wickedness of "what if" fantasies. They are like sailors who fear drowning in the smothering embrace of the sea, never realizing they were mermaids all along.
How can we overcome this?

Giving the Key to the Canadian People
Canadians, as things stand, will never come, cap in hand, begging to join. Canada is a viable, modern federal state, at least as it is, and there is simply not enough impetus to compel the bulk of Canadians to seek to join the United States. It's too much trouble for too little gain. Your neighbors may have a two-car garage and a swimming pool, but you'll visit them, not come knocking on their door asking to move in.
But suppose your neighbor suddenly gave you the key?

This is what I'm proposing.
...A magnificent gamble for the United States that, if it stays the course, it cannot lose. In Quebec, they call separatism "le beau risque" —— the beautiful risk. I have a beautiful risk of union for the United States: give Canadians the key.
What this would require in nothing more than the United States government publicly declaring, before the world, something to this effect:

[/i]"As of January 1, 2006, the government and agencies of the United States, and the states thereof, shall for all practical purposes, treat and regard the citizens of Canada as citizens of the United States." [/i]

Period.
There is next to nothing that Canada, or the rest of the world, could do or say about this: it would come in the form of a gift, from the US to Canadians. After all, it's for the United States to decide who it will and will not consider citizens (Italians born in other countries can still be drafted into the service if they show up in Italy, for instance). And since it would not constitute the extraterritorial application of US laws, or the annexation of Canadian territory, no one in the UN or other nations could object. Canada would still be Canada. But the United States government would have succeeded in going over the heads of the Canadian government in extending this largess to the Canadian people themselves; one of the slickest coups in the history of the world.

Happy New Year!
What would this mean? Canadians would wake up that day, in Canada, under Canadian laws, still living in a separate country…… but something would be different. Suddenly, they would also be US citizens —— Americans, to be colloquial. Those driving to Buffalo or Detroit or Seattle would be waved through at customs. Canadians living in the United States would find their green cards superfluous: they would be US citizens, and legally entitled to work (they would, of course, being resident in the US, also be liable for the draft, and would have to leave the United States if they strenuously objected…… they would have to take the good with the bad). Canadians in trouble abroad could expect to receive help from US embassies. And Canadians would be legally entitled to move to the US, take up jobs and residence there, and vote in elections once they had lived there long enough to meet the residency requirements.
This represents a risk for the United States, because, at least initially, it is very unlikely that the Canadian government would move to reciprocate. To do so would basically undermine Canada to the point that it would no longer exist, and would likely ruin the economy. And so, while Canadians were citizens in the US, US citizens would likely remain, for a time, welcome foreigners in Canada, as they are today. It would mean, for a time, slightly increased competition for jobs, as thousands of Canadians would attempt to exercise their newfound rights and try to find work in the US market.

For perhaps five, ten, or even twenty years, this unequal relationship would endure. The United States, the larger nation, would have to shoulder the inequity during this time. Naturally there would be grumbling and some resentment in the US. But as time passed, people in the US would gradually see the change in attitude. Canadians, now part of the US psychologically, would suddenly begin to think as US citizens. They would come to support and defend the US more than differ with it. They would have a vested interest in the future and well-being of the US that they do not have today, and people in the US would soon reap the harvest of the seeds they had sown. Rather than picking up and moving their homes, increasingly Canadians would consider picking up and moving their provinces, or the whole country, to the US. They would come to use the US dollar, increasingly, because it would be theirs. The pressure to normalize the relationship would build with each passing year. "If you want me to stay in Winnipeg, pay me the same dollar I'd make in Minneapolis." Or "Look how much lower the taxes are in Iowa. Can't we do something about that?" Canada and Canadian attitudes would melt down into the United States over the course of a generation as surely as butter over a warm flame.

The United States Should Act, and Act Now...
And Here's Why.
Some US citizens might be reluctant to offer this gift to Canadians for no immediate return. If patriotism and generosity are insufficient to move them, they must come to see extending US citizenship to Canadians as an investment in the future. The US faces environmental challenges in the next several decades that beg the peaceful annexation of Canada.
As the United States closes in on 300,000,000 people, the pressures on the existing land and particularly water resources are becoming critical. The US southwest is draining its aquifer at a suicidal rate, and it will not be replenished within several human lifetimes. Already, the mighty Colorado River never reaches the sea. Tens of millions of people will either need new water resources, or a place to move. As we come out of the summer of 1998, the hottest on record, the indications are it will only get worse. Temperatures in excess of 40 degrees Celsius (100 degrees Fahrenheit) will only become increasingly commonplace. Arable land in the US Midwest is in danger of drying up in a new dustbowl. The clement weather and growing seasons will in all likelihood creep north, and people are going to need to follow. While these conditions will provoke hardships on the US, they could actually be beneficial to Canada, whose growing season and arable land area will increase. Canada, with only 30,000,000 people, still has lots of room for newcomers, whether from the US or elsewhere. And most crucial of all, Canada is blessed with 14% of the world's fresh water —— more than twice the resources of the United States. Canada has been deathly reluctant to sign any deal that obliges its to share its water resources, so in order get to them, the US will have three choices: illegal annexation at the cost of thousands, even millions of lives and the crippling of the economy, accompanied by the wrath of the world community —— an almost unthinkable prospect; or to pay through the nose for water as they now pay for oil…… Or: to gain the resources as their own by "purchasing" them on the long-term lay-away plan —— making Canadians US citizens.

It is, for the United States, le beau risque. The wonderful gamble. The stakes are high, but the odds are stacked completely in favor of the house. If the US did this, it is virtually guaranteed that Canada, or at least most of Canada, would become part of the United States within a generation. It would be exactly like pulling the plug in the bathtub. There would be no turning back. The best part is, this is a ball the US can start rolling, that requires no cooperation from the Canadian government at all. In fact, there is no practical course Canada's government could take in this day and age that could seriously frustrate the plan. The United States would have spoken to Canadians directly, and Canadians, increasingly, would respond. There is every reason to do it. There is no reason not to do it.

The Romans got it backwards. They made war and then made citizens of their conquests. The US can make citizens without conquest, and win a country without firing a shot —— by letting Canadians discover what they've known all along, but could never admit. They want in.
After 220 years, they want to come home.

An intersting article. I know this would not pass in the US atleast not yet but would anyone accept US citizenship.

[Monorprise]

See my hat badge! For 144 years that badge has served this nation of Canada. There are a lot more regimental badges with proud members and ex members. It is our history. Canada`s! There is so much to be proud of in Canada. I want to preserve the glorious history and that of the United Empire loyalists. I am not anti American. I thank god you are our neighbours and I would not want anyone else. But separate countrys we must stay.

How is it that you explain being pro FD, yet anti UNA?
also how do you explain the British Empire, or its leader joining the European union, and yet Canadian stays behind, with out a head??? why is it that While Great Brittan joins the EU, Canada Absolutely Refuses to join the American Counter part???
to tell you the truth I find this Most insulting, and hurt full as an American. that you would watch the United Kingdome Join and form anther nation, yet be absolutely refusal to unite with us. is there something wrong or different with us American that makes us Unsuitable for a union with??

[Monorprise]

I'm from the State of New Mexico which is one of the United States America (USA)

[Hasdrubul]

I'm from the State of Nova Scotia which is one of the Divided States of America (Canada)

[mingless]

We've sold enough of our honour and integrity already - the gall it takes to suggest that we willingly give away the rest is stupefying.

I subject only, given a choice, which you would prefer, a Union with the United States or a Union with Canada, as it is. Simple question I don’t see why it's so hard to answer??

It's not hard to answer. Not at all. In your stupor, you are incapable of understanding anything more complex than "Yes" or "No".

So let me make it real easy for you. "No" to union with the USA. Now, was that too many big words, or do you get it?

[Muddy]

See my hat badge! For 144 years that badge has served this nation of Canada. There are a lot more regimental badges with proud members and ex members. It is our history. Canada`s! There is so much to be proud of in Canada. I want to preserve the glorious history and that of the United Empire loyalists. I am not anti American. I thank god you are our neighbours and I would not want anyone else. But separate countrys we must stay.

How is it that you explain being pro FD, yet anti UNA?
also how do you explain the British Empire, or its leader joining the European union, and yet Canadian stays behind, with out a head??? why is it that While Great Brittan joins the EU, Canada Absolutely Refuses to join the American Counter part???
to tell you the truth I find this Most insulting, and hurt full as an American. that you would watch the United Kingdome Join and form anther nation, yet be absolutely refusal to unite with us. is there something wrong or different with us American that makes us Unsuitable for a union with??

I already gave you an alternative. How would the great province of New Mexico sound? Where have I ever said anything anti American ? You have branded me something I am not. APOLOGIZE NOW!

[Monorprise]

Tell you what. Why not have the Excited states join Canada? Lets face it ,area wise we are bigger and the last time we had a dust up in 1812 you American Lads were sent packing.

Do you really want the parliamentary system to rule?
if we did that Canada would have no such say in Canadian affairs. the American System gives and protects rights of states, as each of them are solver entities within the United States.

So under the US system you would get more say, in congress via an elected Senate, and have more power, for electing national leaders Presidents, via electoral cottage.

It’s up to you man. To me the US system would almost certainly be a lot better for Canada than the parliamentary Dictatorship you’re currently working under. But by all means lets have this debate, I’ve already had it many times, which is why we suggest the US system.

I said this, you either read it not. Clearly you wouldn’t be on FD if you though the Canadian system worked. So why did do you offer an option seriously, that you know doesn’t work?? I can only conclude that you offer it, because you know my answer to it, as I too know it doesn’t work.
Your offer may show willingness on the face, but in its essences it is the same as if you ever made it. And I think you know it!

[Muddy]

I await your apology for saying I am anti American. I am pro Canada thats where I stand. I just don`t particuarly like the present government. Just because I ,and I suspect the majority of posters on FD gripe about the government does not mean we want to become Americans. You have misread ,I believe the purpose of FD. I await your apology.