Should Equalization Payments to Nova Scotia Stop?

[Charles J. White]

Should Saskatchewan, Newfoundland, British Columbia, and Alberta stop equalizations payments to Nova Scotia? If Nova Scotia is going to continue with moratoriums on offshore drilling, drag out the permit process for regular inland drill work, and now work to block inland fracking, perhaps the equalization payments should stop as well? Clearly the Nova Scotia government is not interested in fixing its problems.

I came across this link and thought it might make a good discussion topic:

http://www.novascotialive.com/index.php ... 0#msg94100

[Edward Kennedy]

Scripture has the answer to this, it says of a man will not woprk then let him not eat. (starve)

This clearly indicates an unwillingness to work, and that is what NS is refusing to do.

If they want to live the envirowhacko creed, let them forgo any equalization payments.

[RedDog]

ALL welfare transfers should stop. Period. It is tantamount to theft from someone else. If you want to live like a Texan, move to Texas.

[Charles J. White]

Look I agree, I'm planning to start a discussion thread on each province which is taking equalization payments. I think Nova Scotia is really hurting Canada by holding provinces back that are doing things right and provincial leaders in Alberta, British Columbia, Newfoundland, and Sask should be saying so.

[RedDog]

Look I agree, I'm planning to start a discussion thread on each province which is taking equalization payments. I think Nova Scotia is really hurting Canada by holding provinces back that are doing things right and provincial leaders in Alberta, British Columbia, Newfoundland, and Sask should be saying so.

I've said many times I would simply stop paying. What are they going to do about it, fine us? Pound sand. Force change and reform in this area. Alberta will have to be the one to do it.

I posted recently elsewhere as well that the massive influx of people to Alberta has some communities on the verge of bankruptcy by overwhelming infrastructure requirements overnight (towns like Blackfalds doubling in size) and yet we're paying transfers to the very locations those new residents arrived from. Redford says we need 50 new schools in Alberta but in theory we're paying for schools elsewhere in the country where children left to move to Alberta. We're paying twice for the same people.

It also slams individuals. Seniors on fixed incomes in the same Blackfalds have seen property taxes double on homes they've had for 50 years to create entire new subdivisions for thousands across the tracks. Taxes there are higher than Red Neck Deer now.

[Charles J. White]

Look I agree, I'm planning to start a discussion thread on each province which is taking equalization payments. I think Nova Scotia is really hurting Canada by holding provinces back that are doing things right and provincial leaders in Alberta, British Columbia, Newfoundland, and Sask should be saying so.

I've said many times I would simply stop paying. What are they going to do about it, fine us? Pound sand. Force change and reform in this area. Alberta will have to be the one to do it.

I posted recently elsewhere as well that the massive influx of people to Alberta has some communities on the verge of bankruptcy by overwhelming infrastructure requirements overnight (towns like Blackfalds doubling in size) and yet we're paying transfers to the very locations those new residents arrived from. Redford says we need 50 new schools in Alberta but in theory we're paying for schools elsewhere in the country where children left to move to Alberta. We're paying twice for the same people.

It also slams individuals. Seniors on fixed incomes in the same Blackfalds have seen property taxes double on homes they've had for 50 years to create entire new subdivisions for thousands across the tracks. Taxes there are higher than Red Neck Deer now.

Look I agree, tell these guys how you feel:

http://www.novascotialive.com/index.php ... n#msg94117

[Machiaveli]

I get the impression some of you picture equalization payments as being a simple transfer of cheques. In reality, the federal government is the distributor of the money. Therefore, the only way to ''stop'' equalization transfers would be to have all individual taxpayers from ''have'' provinces stop paying their federal income taxes. Even then that would not work, as a wealthy Nova Scotian technically contributes more to equalization than a poor Albertan, for example.

So, I guess it's important to get informed in this context, if you plan on stopping equalization.

[Charles J. White]

Well one could look at the option of the federal government getting out of it, by simply transfering the points to the provinces so that only the money collected in the respective province would go to the province based on how many individuals contributed to the system in there respective province.

[Hodgson]

If the Fed's just cut the total amount of the equalization down by 5% a year they could wean the provinces off the program without devasting them in the process.

Kind of like a diet.

[dwday]

I've said many times I would simply stop paying. What are they going to do about it, fine us? Pound sand. Force change and reform in this area. Alberta will have to be the one to do it.

I don't disagree with you that equalization payments should stop, but it doesn't work that way - there is no direct transfer of money from the province of Alberta to the rest of Canada. Equalization payments come out of federal tax revenues that every taxpayer in Canada pays into - Albertans pay about 15% of federal income tax (ballpark), so 15% of the money doled out to other provinces as equalization payments come out of the pockets of Albertans. The other 85% comes out of the pockets of taxpayers in the rest of Canada, including those residing in recipient provinces.

That's not the whole fiscal picture, of course, but just focusing on equalization payments, if you want to refuse to pay, then just start refusing to pay your federal tax. Nobody in the Alberta provincial government has any control over equalization payments.

[RedDog]

I'm saying I would not pay ANY money to Ottawa aside from what WE decide is suitable for our share of military, justice, governance, etc. Don't pay it in the first place. Let them come with hat in hand if they absolutely must plant flowers on the Gardiner Expressway or build a new arena for a city which has no team.

[Winston Smith]

Yes, I think it should stop to all receiving provinces including PEI where I live.

[AltaInd]

I've said many times I would simply stop paying. What are they going to do about it, fine us? Pound sand. Force change and reform in this area. Alberta will have to be the one to do it.

I don't disagree with you that equalization payments should stop, but it doesn't work that way - there is no direct transfer of money from the province of Alberta to the rest of Canada. Equalization payments come out of federal tax revenues that every taxpayer in Canada pays into - Albertans pay about 15% of federal income tax (ballpark), so 15% of the money doled out to other provinces as equalization payments come out of the pockets of Albertans. The other 85% comes out of the pockets of taxpayers in the rest of Canada, including those residing in recipient provinces.

That's not the whole fiscal picture, of course, but just focusing on equalization payments, if you want to refuse to pay, then just start refusing to pay your federal tax. Nobody in the Alberta provincial government has any control over equalization payments.

You are 100% right on equalization. It is probably the most misunderstood government program in Canada. It is a federal program like defence or Indian Affairs with expenditure coming out of general tax revenues. Since Quebec contributes about 20% of tax revenues and Alberta around 13%, Quebec pays for more of their equalization payment than Alberta does.

A province can't say it won't contribute to a federal program. NDP provinces probably don't want to pay for defence but there is no choice. Equalization is up for renegotiation in a couple of years but after listening to the provinces, the federal government will make its own decision.

As far as I know, all federations have some form of equalization. Wikipedia summarizes the important ones:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments
The reason is that having a currency union without a political union that has some financial flows from richer to poorer regions can lead to disaster. The EU is currently going through what can happen. Five of the provinces (Ontario would be OK) would look like Greece and Canada would collapse.

There is only one way for Albertans to stop paying federal tax is to become an independent country. Anything else is wishful thinking.

[Lee Enfield]

I'm saying I would not pay ANY money to Ottawa aside from what WE decide is suitable for our share of military, justice, governance, etc.