Should COP's wear bullet proof vests?

[ccurrie]

No occupation in modern society has been picked apart and misrepresented as police work.

As a retired meathead, I cannot believe the generalization and myths about the "boys (and girls) in blue" that are still bandied about. The majority of cops are true, loyal, compassionate, and dedicated to their profession.

For law enforcement organizations, whether they like it or not, the principles in civil liberties granted to individuals in democratic societies pose somewhat complex problems for police officers in the performance of their duties.

The principles of civil liberties, as understood by the majority of FD posters, would not pose much of a problem for police work. The arbitrary and logically incosistent "liberties" read into the Communists' 1982 Charter are a problem. The only way for a cop (or anyone else) to guess what a Communist appointed judge might read into them is to ask "What would Kafka rule?" Our ancient laws and liberties are generally consistent. They are easily understood and their consequences and interpretation are easily predicted. The new Communist inspired nonsense we've had since Trudeau are not.

The police officer of today is not the 6 foot four, grade four police corps of yesteryear. University educated personnel are preferred.

I grew up around older cops. My best friend's Dad in elementary school was then a 20 year veteran, now retired. Name's Bob. Tough. Smart. Salt of the earth. I still visit when I'm in his neck of the woods. They don't make 'em like Bob any more, not least because Bob was a Christian who never suffered through a University indocrination.

Today's police officer faces many challenges -- in a world of frequent and dramatic changes in technology, social attitudes, and legal thinking, the police officer plays an important role in protecting our values that are essential in our society. A cop may be still walking the beat, but he is just as likely to be working in specialties as computer fraud, hostage negotiations, electronic surveillance, or as a High School Resource Officer.

To the author of this topic, don't mix the drama from TV and movies with policing.

I have as an adult seen some of my peers go into law enforcement. Colin was an off-duty cop with two years under his belt. We were on our way out to the bars one night when he hoofed a homeless guy in the nuts. The homeless guy was just standing there. Never said or did anything before he crumpled to the ground. Colin thought it was funny. Colin is not a Christian. A product of Trudeau-era state-run schools, he's an over-educated Communist who doesn't know what Communism is, and wouldn't care if you told him.

Arbitrary laws and court rulings ("dramatic changes", none of them predictable or rational) have made their jobs very difficult. At the same time, lax to non-existent punishments have made a lot of police work futile. They can intervene immediately if a crime is in progress, but the criminal will most likely be back out on the streets hours or days later.

Excessive and hostile political / ideological scrutiny hasn't made things easier for these guys. I doubt even Bob could have functioned as a police officer with a pile of commie nutbars second-guessing his every move. I've come to expect that good cops would quit, get fired, or never hired in the first place. I have increasingly come to perceive the RCMP as an armed wing of the Liberal Party of Canada.

I have seen some of the all-too predictable results of Communist policing. I had breakfast at Mel's on Bloor St. west of Spadina one morning, several years ago now. It was 4:30 in the morning and after a bite before work I took my cup of coffee and a smoke out onto the patio. I kept out of the wind by the patio wall and a couple of bushes. I wasn't exactly hiding, but hard to see. There was a freak wandering up and down Bloor St yelling obscenities at windows and anyone passing by. I had just finished my smoke when an unmarked cruiser appeared on the corner right next to me, and then a marked car across the street. I was curious. I lit another smoke. Two more cruisers appeared farther down, towards Bathurst St. They had the freak boxed in. Three cruisers mounted sidewalks and very neatly herded the freak out into the middle of the road. The fourth cruiser hung back, then floored it. The freak bounced off the bush bars and landed behind the cruiser without touching the windshield or roof. An ambulance arrived (quietly, no sirens) almost immediately. There's no way the freak was alive when they put him in it. It was all over and the street was empty before I finished my second smoke. I was amazed. It wasn't just murder. It was well practiced, and perfectly executed murder. I can easily picture Bob taking a guy into a secluded alleyway for a "chat" and delivering some much needed "correction". I have a lot of trouble imagining Bob or any of that generation killing an unarmed man in cold blood.

I don't trust the new generation of cop. Not one little bit. I've been pulled over regularly as a cab driver. I've met several recently who were nervous, evasive, wouldn't make eye contact. I have never seen distress like that in an older-generation cop. Something is wrong. Something body armour won't fix. I don't really worry *about* them, since I am generally law abiding and unlikely to become a target, but I do worry *for* them. Too much stress. Too many wonks trying to mess with their heads. I am used to being nervous when I get pulled over. Did I lose my plates? Is a light out on my car? Did he see that U-turn? I'm not used to the cop looking like he's more nervous than I am. The difference in body language... it's the difference between a well trained guard dog you don't want to mess with and a wounded animal that may or may not bite. Bob was always square with God and square with the law, and it showed in his face and words and everything he did. These new guys aren't square and never can be. Not "in a world of frequent and dramatic changes in... social attitudes, and legal thinking". A lawman cannot ever be square with the arbitrary injustice of Communism. It simply isn't possible. The problem is worse still with individuals who have no moral compass of their own. I hope I haven't sounded too harsh on cops here. They aren't the problem. They are suffering and showing symptoms of the problem: We can't have good lawmen without good laws. Changing the colour of their uniforms is akin to re-painting the deck chairs on the Titanic. Might be nice, but it won't help.

LAR: Thanks for the link. I hadn't thought of looking on eBay.

[BlawBlaw]

More and more police forces across North America are switching to the black uniforms. Psychological studies have shown that when sports team wear the black, it tends to dominate the game, and they usually win more often - This also applies to the police in black uniforms.

For hockey, the explanation that I heard was that the puck contrasts against a light uniform, but a dark uniform makes it harder for the goalie to see the puck. Apparently, the rule used to be that the home team wore light colours but they have switched it around to give the home team a slight advantage.

[Dogpatch]

ccurrie

I mostly understand what you are saying, however, I must emphasize that police work in days past have evolved for today's society.

As the courts make ever more complicated (and sometimes a complete about-face on) legal rulings to expand the rights of accused persons, the police officer must now be well versed in skills such as legal interpretation, forensic science, and psychology and sociology.

Today's would-be cop undergoes extensive interviews, background checks, psychological screening... -- and that is just to get a foot in the door. There are now more university educated citizens in society than before, and the would-be police officer has to broaden his educational level to be successful in his profession.

If he/she is accepted, then there is a demanding training regime (both physical and academic), that the candidate must pass and even then, the candidate is not assured of being accepted into his/her desired career.

Today's law enforcement personnel must have a knowledge of the workings of government and an awareness of current affairs and conflicting issues in our society. All of this and yet be able to apply common sense and practical thought to solving problems that continually arise.

BlawBlaw

I like that story about hockey. And be aware that dark colours are dominate and intimidating to some.

[BlawBlaw]

The Toronto Police Service is one of the only employers in Canada who actually charge people to apply: $294 to cover the costs of testing. PSAC, for instance, doesn't charge anything for the application and testing process.

I have heard that the Toronto cops get some ridiculous number of applications for each job opening (something like 10 to 1).

[Dogpatch]

The Toronto Police Service is one of the only employers in Canada who actually charge people to apply: $294 to cover the costs of testing. PSAC, for instance, doesn't charge anything for the application and testing process.

I have heard that the Toronto cops get some ridiculous number of applications for each job opening (something like 10 to 1).

Wow. like a shake-down.

The RCMP no longer pay their candidates while they are in training.

In QC and Atlantic Canada and I think BC, potential candidates must enroll, pay for, and pass law enforcement studies in a community college or similar institution before they can be considered for application.

And some have entered the Military Police trade, hoping that the experience will help get their foot in the door, but all it does is give one a few points more on qualification. But at least they're paid while in training.

[Padraigh]

They shouldn't be able to wear them, after all, they're not out for a afternoon picnic whenver I see them wearing them.


Afterall, the Police have stated that they don't want the public to wear bullet proof vests since you don't need one to go to a picnic.


What's good for the goose is good for the gander.



Wearing body armour is now reasonable grounds to being abritarily detained?
http://www.bclocalnews.com/surrey_area/ ... 28671.html

Armoured gangsters not out for 'afternoon picnic'

It had the look of trouble – several men putting on body armour in Surrey near the Gateway SkyTrain station on West Whalley Ring Road.

That June 16 tip from an onlooker sent Transit Police and the RCMP to the scene, where officers stopped two well-known gang members in bullet-proof vests with bear spray in the car.

The vests and bear spray was seized, the duo was arrested and Surrey RCMP's Gang Task Force has taken over the investigation.

A second vehicle of armored suspects wasn't located.

"These men were not getting ready for an afternoon picnic," said Transit Police Chief Ward Clapham.

It's not clear yet whether the seized items will be returned to the suspects or if charges will result.

The Transit Police strongly support the province's plan to regulate the sale of body armour, Clapham added.

Blocking the possession and sale of bullet-proof vests is an important step in combatting gang violence, he said.

[AndrewL.]

When I left, the RCMP seemed little different from the KGB.

One if the biggest problems with the mounties is their size. Disband them or reduce their scope of duties and get provincial police in all provinces. Then get more municipal forces.

[wdewitt]

The criminals today are more worry about there rival; is carrying than the police.
These guys smoke too much dope from the suppliers and don't realize they will kill anybody that is a threat to there business.
Cops are finding more crooks are better armed than they are and there body armor is too light to deal with there weapons.
That is why they are upgrading there equipment to keep up with the current gang problems;weapons smuggle in from the USA or old machine gun's that are suppose to be non firing retool to use again.
The opposition partys can't blame duck hunters or farmers for road side shootings in major citys.

[ChangingColours]

I dispute an earlier statement: Cops have a thankless job. I am very thankful for their efforts.

Should they wear a vest? Personal decision in my opinion ... should you wear a condom when out on the town? Your choice. You get the consequences.