littleharbour Au Revoir?

[Theresa]

Resident Liberal wrote:

Even if you could make the argument that our country was founded as a Judeo-Christian nation, tradition is not reason enough to preserve something. Our country was also founded by people who had incredibly racist and sexist views, and we certainly don't want to keep those traditions alive. But, more importantly, why is it impossible for someone to have personal religious views, but also believe that it is best for a country to be officially secular?

Because Secularism is intolerant, secularism gives power to the state not the people.

No system is perfect, but some are better than others. The most prosperous nations have been those founded on Judeo/Christian Principles. Canada, US, Israel, to name a few.

I am not talking theocracy. I am speaking of nations whose laws are framed within the context of the Judeo /Christian Principles. Freedom of speech, religion and association are vitally important. Secularism does not offer that freedom.

To be clear I do not hate homosexuals. I believe in Traditional marriage. Unfortunately it is a position that is construed as hateful and could haul me before a HRC . We already hear it from DA. LH must 'hate' because he holds a strong position on traditional marriage.

I should not be so angry with Bulldog; he is doing what many have done before him, including many professed Catholic and leaders in the Church. It is the betrayals before him that have brought our society into this mess. The pain for Christians on board, who take their faith seriously, is the sense of betrayal to Holy Scripture —remember to us it is the ‘Word of God’— you may not believe this, but please try to understand our reasoning from this context. As such, The Word of God cannot be played with. The betrayal is twofold, it is personal and directed at our Saviour. The sense of shock, betrayal, and disillusionment in this context is profound. Christians are called to love the Lord our God with all of our heart mind and soul. We are further called to evangelize this love, not betray it. From the very beginning God created us in His image, as man and woman so they would become one. From the get go, and throughout, the image of marriage as between man and woman are very strong.

I have homosexuals in my family and as friends. Thankfully they have their heads on straight. (No pun intended) Some agree with me, they don’t want marriage. Some are honest and know it is not the best environment for children. And others disagree with me and we freely discuss the issues. Sometimes with passion, but we remain friends and family. I can love my friends and hold onto my values, and they can love me even though I am not 100% in sync with them. I will not betray my core beliefs because I love them. Nor should they betray theirs for me.

Marriage is not a love commitment, traditionally it is a contractual commitment between a man women and state, that the latter will support the two to procreate and provide a secure and functional environment for the children, the future of the country. This contract is necessary and good for society, ALL of US.

The children should have the rights here, not the adults. They are the ones needing protection. No society can sustain itself with social disorder which is inevitable when the family structure breaks down. The money it costs the taxpayer is overwhelming. As a society we should be working to strengthen traditional marriage not further erode it.

[DA_Champion]

To be clear I do not hate homosexuals. I believe in Traditional marriage. Unfortunately it is a position that is construed as hateful and could haul me before a HRC . We already hear it from DA. LH must 'hate' because he holds a strong position on traditional marriage.

That's just completely not true.

There's a lot more to his tone than a preference for traditional marriage.

He once implied I must be a homosexual as I love them so much, which is ridiculous.

He's said gay couples would never be recognized by society, which is different from saying they should not be recognized.

I could probably go on.

[free_life2]

I think the point of LH disilusionment is not so much that bulldog now suppprts SSM, rather it is the utter disapointment that a professed Christian, a man admIred for his strong faith, has publicly turned against those convictions. We were not founded as a secular religious nation. We were founded as a Judeo Christian nation. To see this nation change and our freedoms eroded to accomodate secularism is disturbing to many . It is a disgrace to the Christian and Jewish scripture to pretend that marriage is merely a profession of a love. It is sad to see people handing our country to secularism.Such as" I cannot impose my Values in secular society." You got that right buddy! You cannot even"speak" your values in secular Societyledst you be hauled before a tribunal.Early Christians were Martyed for defending those values.at the very least I hope bulldog does not prance his Christian values when it suits him in other topics like Hailey does. That is the disgusting part the hypocrycy and confusion It creates for others.I think for LH it was just one disapointment too many.The only way to understand this is from a faith perspective.

Well put Theresa. When Christians abandon God's truth even for the sake of so called "freedom" they are in opposition to God. and that is the result of what we have today in our land with God's values being rewritten to please everyone.

[Theresa]

Sorry DA, I am basing my comment on your one reply. I have not read all threads. So if you have more reasoning then the one stated previously, I accept that.

[politics101]

Sorry DA, I am basing my comment on your one reply. I have not read all threads. So if you have more reasoning then the one stated previously, I accept that.

Theresa;

On a personal level I am not religious, but I can appreciate individuals such as yourself who base their opposition to SSM on religious grounds - even though, as a supporter of equal access, I disagree. With that being said, people like 'Littleharbour' and a few others on this board do not do your side any justice with their brash demenour.

[Peter O'Donnell]

Well, what makes the situation so difficult is this ... secular humanists have imposed their view on us, and told us we have to accept it or face legal penalties if we speak out. We feel obligated more to God than to the laws of the land in these conflicts, and so we continue to speak out, and the godless society around us continues to punish us for speaking out.

If it were the other way around, if we imposed our views on secular humanists, I am sure they would do more than speak out, they would wage violent revolution against us and seek to kill and destroy us. History proves this to be true.

This state of affairs tends to favour secular humanism, because everyone is probably more content with the limited harm done to believers, than the state of open warfare that would erupt in the other dispensation. However, this is not to say that God favours this situation.

The apostle Paul may have muddied the waters by leaving the impression that Christians should always obey the authorities. I think he must have given that advice in view of the realities faced by the early Christian community. I am not convinced personally that this is the will of God, certainly not in all situations over all time scales. We are left with the difficult task of accepting what we can of worldly authority so long as we do not violate principles of our faith. This is probably why a Christian may go along with minor infringements of a perceived moral code, but draw a line at a major conflict like abortion (or for some left-wing Christians, warfare).

Each one of us has to decide these things in the chaos of the imperfect world around us. This is why we sometimes reach different conclusions, because we are trying to balance two different perspectives, the will to serve God as primary sovereign in our lives, and the desire to see peace, order and good government. These two should blend harmoniously together but sometimes they present two conflicting paradigms. And then there is lawfare, but don't even get me started on that business.

[free_life2]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

[politics101]

... While the rest of us sit idly in the middle.

[Michel ESL]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

Ahhhh! Some more religious love. The kind of love that gets a free ride on some "conservative" forums (what a shame for the conservative brand name by the way). Psychologists say that sometimes love is so close to hatred that they can easily be confused. I wonder what they mean by that. Hmmmm.

[J.B. Stone]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

Ahhhh! Some more religious love. The kind of love that gets a free ride on some "conservative" forums (what a shame for the conservative brand name by the way). Psychologists say that sometimes love is so close to hatred that they can easily be confused. I wonder what they mean by that. Hmmmm.

PLEASE, go play in traffic....!!!

[politics101]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

Ahhhh! Some more religious love. The kind of love that gets a free ride on some "conservative" forums (what a shame for the conservative brand name by the way). Psychologists say that sometimes love is so close to hatred that they can easily be confused. I wonder what they mean by that. Hmmmm.

As DA correctly pointed out in an earlier thread, there is a real power struggle going on for control of the conservative brand at the moment. I can't say with any great certainty that either side has a leg up at the moment. Social conservatives lament their position just as much as the rest of us do.

[Maikeru]

Ahhhh! Some more religious love. The kind of love that gets a free ride on some "conservative" forums (what a shame for the conservative brand name by the way).

One gets the impression you've not got much patience with concepts that elude you.

Psychologists say that sometimes love is so close to hatred that they can easily be confused. I wonder what they mean by that. Hmmmm.

Comments of that sort usually spring from the context of the essays in which they are used.
eg. "I would hate to say, but love the thought of doing so, that you are as shallow as a dew pond."

[free_life2]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

Ahhhh! Some more religious love. The kind of love that gets a free ride on some "conservative" forums (what a shame for the conservative brand name by the way). Psychologists say that sometimes love is so close to hatred that they can easily be confused. I wonder what they mean by that. Hmmmm.

I try to use actual facts when I write something and also to make sense when I propose and idea or argument. You should try it sometime, that gibberish you wrote is sad even for you MESL. BTW is that pronounced Measle?

[DA_Champion]

Exactly it is the secular atheist religion that is imposing it's values (lack of values) on the rest of us. Remember the change is to these lack of values from God's values that were long established in this nation. And the secular godless bla bla bla that you know better is utter rubbish. We can see what the secular state has produced. This nation has become a far more violent, divided, restrictive, impoverished, unsafe, unproductive and crime ridden nation. The secular religion has near destroyed this nation and we are not going to roll over and let it continue till there is nothing left.

Do you really think it's so bad?

You can write a tome about the differences between Canada 2009 and Canada 1909, good and bad.

Some of the differences are great. We live to 80 rather than 40, we fear cancer and heart disease rather than tuberculosis, cholera and childbirth. Almost all of us can read, and there are better things to read, everything that was good before plus all the new stuff that's good.

We're actually a lot more productive. Not many 16 hour days in factories... because we don't need it. We engage in sloth because we can.

As for crime, I don't know, but I'd bet we're safer than we were 100 years ago. If we don't feel safer it's because the MSM loves crime.

[Yoda]

As for crime, I don't know, but I'd bet we're safer than we were 100 years ago.

I don't go back 100 years, but over half that. And everywhere things are a lot less safe today.