US Healthcare

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Re: US Healthcare

Postby Monorprise » 10/ 02/ 08 12:01 am

j0hnfars0n wrote:ANyone know why it's so expensive?

Basically a combination of several factors including ever more limited market competition.

1: There is also a significant litigation issue raising financial risk, and drain on the system.

2: As medical technology gets better and better it also gets more and more expensive to the point were we are medical able to keep people alive virtually indefinitely be it at great cost. We are at the point where 70% of US medical costs are incurred by just 10% of the population. (This doesn’t sound like much but you throw in Social Welfare pools and you’re talking unending extreme costs.)

3: Starting in the mid 1990's Many hospitals due to large loses from price competition and otherwise begin consolidating closing down, but more commonly most all of the hospitals in a particular area coming under a signal ownership group. Forcing insurance company in order to offer wide spread coverage to deal with them and pay their prices. (Market power over the consumer by limiting alterative options = little price competition).

4: By the late 1990's and early 2000's Insurance company's started getting into the game and consolidating getting to the point where in all but 14 states (36 states) just 3 insurance company control 60% of the market, further reducing insurance company competition and choice by employers or individuals. (Market power over the consumer by limiting alterative= little price competition).


5: The U.S. must bear the bunt of the R&D cost due to other country like Canada at least formerly, buying copycat drugs from 3rd world manufactures that not only don't respect the patents but also don't pay any into the huge cost in developing those drugs.
While at the same time they reduce the market share for the same drug for the company that did in fact do it legitimately to just the US and a few countries that play by the rules.


6: In general we don’t have much of a free market and sense the 1990's we have been progressively losing more and more of it as insurance and hospital companies either close down or consolidate, increasing their respective market power to drive up prices. This is mainly facilitated by the huge entry barriers that Government has created for new people to enter into the health care market.
So little to no new companies joining the market to out compete the old players, naturally allows the existing companies to consolidate and raise prices with little new competition.


7: The United States Government in the 1960’s created Medicare and Medicate (together accounting for about half U.S. healthcare cost) which driven up cost by broadly subsidizing existing care and increasing the cost which the market “can” bear, not to mention unbalancing demand upon the system.

8: On top of this the Federal Government mandating huge spending by hospitals in 1986 by passed (unfunded) a law requiring all hospitals to treat anyone in the emergency room regardless of whether or not they could pay for the service. From that point on Hospitals started incurring huge loses, as people simply used the expensive emergency care and walked away. (One of the reasons people are mad about illegal aliens) this further added to the problem as Hospitals one by one were forced to shut down being unable to bear the cost (which is unevenly distributed across a region) and remain in the market.
This is perhaps the worse of all the problems, forcing health care providers companies to closes down or consolidate the market.
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Postby Kate Shaw » 10/ 02/ 08 7:15 am

While I was visiting my parents last time, we had to rush Mama to the hospital with what we thought at the time was heart trouble. Within an hour of calling the paramedics she was admitted, in a room, and being seen by a doctor.

In Toronto the papers were full of stories last week of a woman who had been waiting in terrible pain for surgery following an auto accident, for EIGHTEEN DAYS -- and the hospitals had told her in fact, that she could not EVER be brought to surgery in ANY local hospital. Lo and behold, after the newspaper got involved, they found this was not actually true. The follow-up story was about people waiting in the ambulance for 11 hours before they could even get in the door of the hospital.

I wonder what it is about socialist medicine that people love, when I see this kind of contrast with my own eyes?
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Postby muncher » 10/ 02/ 08 7:45 am

Kate Shaw wrote:While I was visiting my parents last time, we had to rush Mama to the hospital with what we thought at the time was heart trouble. Within an hour of calling the paramedics she was admitted, in a room, and being seen by a doctor.

In Toronto the papers were full of stories last week of a woman who had been waiting in terrible pain for surgery following an auto accident, for EIGHTEEN DAYS -- and the hospitals had told her in fact, that she could not EVER be brought to surgery in ANY local hospital. Lo and behold, after the newspaper got involved, they found this was not actually true. The follow-up story was about people waiting in the ambulance for 11 hours before they could even get in the door of the hospital.

I wonder what it is about socialist medicine that people love, when I see this kind of contrast with my own eyes?


I called 911...less than 10 mins later the fire dept came followed a couple of mins later by an ambulance. Taken down to Sunnybrooke and after taking all the info was looked after. Had all kinds of blood work and xrays done. Admitted in a couple of hours to the Cardiac care unit. Had an angiograme the next day.

There are horror stories on both sides of the border. Like that woman that died in agony in a er down south a few months ago.
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Postby Meistro » 11/ 22/ 08 6:29 am

"I wonder what it is about socialist medicine that people love, when I see this kind of contrast with my own eyes?"

When you have an idea beaten into you, day after day, week after week. When you are indoctrinated into an idea for 12 years of public schooling. When your friends, your family, your pastor... when everyone in your life constantly tells you that socialist medicine is great, is working, will never fail...

it's tough to break free and trust your own eyes.
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Postby RedDog » 11/ 22/ 08 8:29 am

The follow-up story was about people waiting in the ambulance for 11 hours before they could even get in the door of the hospital.


This sort of thing is commonly reported on Edmonton radio in connection to ambulance shortage stories. These EMS units fly up to the ER door and often sit there for hours before the facility can "accept" the new patient. That ambulance is thus down and out of service while they sit there tending to a patient no doctor has examined. There could be a grizzly traffic accident 3 blocks away with multiple victims and they can't respond. When you tally up the number of hospitals in the Capital Health Region, you could have a dozen EMS units parked outside ER's effectively out of service and unavailable to respond to anything.
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Postby Ogopogo » 09/ 14/ 09 10:07 pm

http://www.newsweek.com/id/215291/page/1

The Case for Killing Granny

Rethinking end-of-life care.

My mother wanted to die, but the doctors wouldn't let her. At least that's the way it seemed to me as I stood by her bed in an intensive-care unit at a hospital in Hilton Head, S.C., five years ago. My mother was 79, a longtime smoker who was dying of emphysema. She knew that her quality of life was increasingly tethered to an oxygen tank, that she was losing her ability to get about, and that she was slowly drowning. The doctors at her bedside were recommending various tests and procedures to keep her alive, but my mother, with a certain firmness I recognized, said no. She seemed puzzled and a bit frustrated that she had to be so insistent on her own demise.

The hospital at my mother's assisted-living facility was sustained by Medicare, which pays by the procedure. I don't think the doctors were trying to be greedy by pushing more treatments on my mother. That's just the way the system works. The doctors were responding to the expectations of almost all patients. As a doctor friend of mine puts it, "Americans want the best, they want the latest, and they want it now." We expect doctors to make heroic efforts—especially to save our lives and the lives of our loved ones.


PHOTOS
Grace Before Dying

Inside a remarkable hospice program for prison inmates.


The idea that we might ration health care to seniors (or anyone else) is political anathema. Politicians do not dare breathe the R word, lest they be accused—however wrongly—of trying to pull the plug on Grandma. But the need to spend less money on the elderly at the end of life is the elephant in the room in the health-reform debate. Everyone sees it but no one wants to talk about it. At a more basic level, Americans are afraid not just of dying, but of talking and thinking about death. Until Americans learn to contemplate death as more than a scientific challenge to be overcome, our health-care system will remain unfixable.

Compared with other Western countries, the United States has more health care—but, generally speaking, not better health care. There is no way we can get control of costs, which have grown by nearly 50 percent in the past decade, without finding a way to stop overtreating patients. In his address to Congress, President Obama spoke airily about reducing inefficiency, but he slid past the hard choices that will have to be made to stop health care from devouring ever-larger slices of the economy and tax dollar. A significant portion of the savings will have to come from the money we spend on seniors at the end of life because, as Willie Sutton explained about why he robbed banks, that's where the money is.

As President Obama said, most of the uncontrolled growth in federal spending and the deficit comes from Medicare; nothing else comes close. Almost a third of the money spent by Medicare—about $66.8 billion a year—goes to chronically ill patients in the last two years of life. This might seem obvious—of course the costs come at the end, when patients are the sickest. But that can't explain what researchers at Dartmouth have discovered: Medicare spends twice as much on similar patients in some parts of the country as in others. The average cost of a Medicare patient in Miami is $16,351; the average in Honolulu is $5,311. In the Bronx, N.Y., it's $12,543. In Fargo, N.D., $5,738. The average Medicare patient undergoing end-of-life treatment spends 21.9 days in a Manhattan hospital. In Mason City, Iowa, he or she spends only 6.1 days.

Maybe it's unsurprising that treatment in rural towns costs less than in big cities, with all their high prices, varied populations, and urban woes. But there are also significant disparities in towns that are otherwise very similar. How do you explain the fact, for instance, that in Boulder, Colo., the average cost of Medicare treatment is $9,103, whereas an hour away in Fort Collins, Colo., the cost is $6,448?

The answer, the Dartmouth researchers found, is that in some places doctors are just more likely to order more tests and procedures. More specialists are involved. There is very little reason for them not to order more tests and treatments. By training and inclination, doctors want to do all they can to cure ailments. And since Medicare pays by procedure, test, and hospital stay—though less and less each year as the cost squeeze tightens—there is an incentive to do more and more. To make a good living, doctors must see more patients, and order more tests.

All this treatment does not necessarily buy better care. In fact, the Dartmouth studies have found worse outcomes in many states and cities where there is more health care. Why? Because just going into the hospital has risks—of infection, or error, or other unforeseen complications. Some studies estimate that Americans are overtreated by roughly 30 percent. "It's not about rationing care—that's always the bogeyman people use to block reform," says Dr. Elliott Fisher, a professor at Dartmouth Medical School. "The real problem is unnecessary and unwanted care."

But how do you decide which treatments to cut out? How do you choose between the necessary and the unnecessary? There has been talk among experts and lawmakers of giving more power to a panel of government experts to decide—Britain has one, called the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (known by the somewhat ironic acronym NICE). But no one wants the horror stories of denied care and long waits that are said to plague state-run national health-care systems. (The criticism is unfair: patients wait longer to see primary-care physicians in the United States than in Britain.) After the summer of angry town halls, no politician is going to get anywhere near something that could be called a "death panel."

There's no question that reining in the lawyers would help cut costs. Fearing medical-malpractice suits, doctors engage in defensive medicine, ordering procedures that may not be strictly necessary—but why take the risk? According to various studies, defensive medicine adds perhaps 2 percent to the overall bill—a not-insignificant number when more than $2 trillion is at stake. A number of states have managed to institute some kind of so-called tort reform, limiting the size of damage awards by juries in medical-malpractice cases. But the trial lawyers—big donors to the Democratic Party—have stopped Congress from even considering reforms. That's why it was significant that President Obama even raised the subject in his speech last week, even if he was vague about just what he'd do. (Best idea: create medical courts run by experts to rule on malpractice claims, with no punitive damages.)

But the biggest cost booster is the way doctors are paid under most insurance systems, including Medicare. It's called fee-for-service, and it means just that. So why not just put doctors on salary? Some medical groups that do, like the Mayo Clinic, have reduced costs while producing better results. Unfortunately, putting doctors on salary requires that they work for someone, and most American physicians are self-employed or work in small group practices. The alternative—paying them a flat rate for each patient they care for—turned out to be at least a partial bust. HMOs that paid doctors a flat fee in the 1990s faced a backlash as patients bridled at long waits and denied service.

Ever-rising health-care spending now consumes about 17 percent of the economy (versus about 10 percent in Europe). At the current rate of increase, it will devour a fifth of GDP by 2018. We cannot afford to sustain a productive economy with so much money going to health care. Over time, economic reality may force us to adopt a national health-care system like Britain's or Canada's. But before that day arrives, there are steps we can take to reduce costs without totally turning the system inside out.

One place to start is to consider the psychological aspect of health care. Most people are at least minor hypochondriacs (I know I am). They use doctors to make themselves feel better, even if the doctor is not doing much to physically heal what ails them. (In ancient times, doctors often made people sicker with quack cures like bleeding.) The desire to see a physician is often pronounced in assisted-living facilities. Old people, far from their families in our mobile, atomized society, depend on their doctors for care and reassurance. I noticed that in my mother's retirement home, the talk in the dining room was often about illness; people built their day around doctor's visits, partly, it seemed to me, to combat loneliness.

Physicians at Massachusetts General Hospital are experimenting with innovative approaches to care for their most ill patients without necessarily sending them to the doctor. Three years ago, Massachusetts enacted universal care—just as Congress and the Obama administration are attempting to do now. The state quickly found it could not afford to meet everyone's health-care demands, so it's scrambling for solutions. The Mass General program assigned nurses to the hospital's 2,600 sickest—and costliest—Medicare patients. These nurses provide basic care, making sure the patients take their medications and so forth, and act as gatekeepers—they decide if a visit to the doctor is really necessary. It's not a perfect system—people will still demand to see their doctors when it's unnecessary—but the Mass General program cut costs by 5 percent while providing the elderly what they want and need most: caring human contact.

Other initiatives ensure that the elderly get counseling about end-of-life issues. Although demagogued as a "death panel," a program in Wisconsin to get patients to talk to their doctors about how they want to deal with death was actually a resounding success. A study by the Archives of Internal Medicine shows that such conversations between doctors and patients can decrease costs by about 35 percent—while improving the quality of life at the end. Patients should be encouraged to draft living wills to make their end-of-life desires known. Unfortunately, such paper can be useless if there is a family member at the bedside demanding heroic measures. "A lot of the time guilt is playing a role," says Dr. David Torchiana, a surgeon and CEO of the Massachusetts General Physicians Organization. Doctors can feel guilty, too—about overtreating patients. Torchiana recalls his unease over operating to treat a severe heart infection in a woman with two forms of metastatic cancer who was already comatose. The family insisted.

Studies show that about 70 percent of people want to die at home—but that about half die in hospitals. There has been an important increase in hospice or palliative care—keeping patients with incurable diseases as comfortable as possible while they live out the remainder of their lives. Hospice services are generally intended for the terminally ill in the last six months of life, but as a practical matter, many people receive hospice care for only a few weeks.

Our medical system does everything it can to encourage hope. And American health care has been near miraculous—the envy of the world—in its capacity to develop new lifesaving and life-enhancing treatments. But death can be delayed only so long, and sometimes the wait is grim and degrading. The hospice ideal recognized that for many people, quiet and dignity—and loving care and good painkillers—are really what's called for.

That's what my mother wanted. After convincing the doctors that she meant it—that she really was ready to die—she was transferred from the ICU to a hospice, where, five days later, she passed away. In the ICU, as they removed all the monitors and pulled out all the tubes and wires, she made a fluttery motion with her hands. She seemed to be signaling goodbye to all that—I'm free to go in peace.
Click here to find out more!

With Pat Wingert, Suzanne Smalley, and Claudia Kalb in Washington

© 2009
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Postby Kate Shaw » 09/ 15/ 09 6:07 am

Hospice was a blessing to Daddy (although he did not really want to be there) and to the rest of the family--and years ago to my brother in law who died of AIDS who was in home hospice care. When there is truly no more that can be done, hospice is a very good choice.
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Postby Ogopogo » 09/ 17/ 09 8:35 pm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/1 ... 90658.html


Bill O'Reilly Backs Public Option (VIDEO)


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/1 ... 90658.html



Bombastic Fox News host Bill O'Reilly made a rather notable policy pronouncement on Wednesday's show: he supports the creation of a government-managed health care plan if it provides working Americans with an affordable option to other private insurance plans.

In other words, he supports the public option now being hotly debated in Congress.

As noted by DailyKos' Jed Lewison, O'Reilly had the following exchange with the Heritage Foundation's Nina Owcharenko:

O'REILLY: The public option now is done. We discussed this, it's not going to happen. But you say that this little marketplace that they're going to set up, whereby the federal government would subsidize insurance for some Americans, that is, in your opinion, a public option?


OWCHARENKO: Well, it has massive new federal regulation. So you don't necessarily need a public option if the federal government is going to control and regulate the type of health insurance that Americans can buy.

O'REILLY: But you know, I want that, Ms. Owcharenko. I want that. I want, not for personally for me, but for working Americans, to have a option, that if they don't like their health insurance, if it's too expensive, they can't afford it, if the government can cobble together a cheaper insurance policy that gives the same benefits, I see that as a plus for the folks.

Watch video:

Indeed, supporters of the public option do so for the very reasons O'Reilly notes. A study by the nonpartisan Commonwealth Fund found that "a public coverage program similar to Medicare would reduce projected health care costs by about $2 trillion over 11 years, and reduce premiums by about 20% on average. Within about a decade, 105 million people would be enrolled in the public plan, and about 107 million would have private insurance, according to the Commonwealth Fund."


Read more at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/09/1 ... 90658.html
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