View topic - Lemire Final Argument - LIVE BLOGGING - Day Two :: Free Dominion - Principled Conservative - Party and Canadian Politics

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:25 am Post subject:

----

geeze

you could write your own post, post under a psuedo for 5 seconds, print it off under an anonymous search, then take it back down.

Webmaster is then guilty ?

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WTF is wrong with this story of the poem?
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:29 am Post subject:

Fothergill and Blight have their heads buried in paper.

Wonder why none of this was addressed by either yesterday?

Holes big enough to drive a Mac truck through.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:31 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

noting that Taylor requires repeated message to fulfil the intent requirement, as one message or two may be mistakes.

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_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:37 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

Klaatt's testimony shows that the same Candian Immigrant Poem is also available on a wide array of websites - some 92 different websites.

Warman wants to show Freedomsite is a neo-nazi website because of this poem

country living
vancouver
dodge dakota
etc - all had this same poem

these websites are not neo-nazi website either

you can't shut down websites because they criticize immigration.

- A slipery slope to totalitarianism, she says.

Kaluszka continues ..

other evidence from Stormfront postings show both Warman and Lemire's postings

{Leemire hands Kaluszka a big binder )

Tab 4 - page 68

Marc Lemire's profile summer 2004
409 posts

Warman wwho monitors Stormfront found one posting Warman found he disliked.

-------

Heh!
1 out of 409 posting - what's that --> a quarter of a percentage that allegedly comes under section 13
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:41 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

you can go thru Warman's postings that investiagtors have found on VNN and Stromfront (multiple messages) that are hate messages, even though the complaint didn't go through against Warman.

Taylor sets a very high bar and the poem doesn't meet the test and the poem allegedly posted by Lemire ( that disappears) which is also found on Vancouver Today ...

---------------

What a scam
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:43 am Post subject:

Break time

see if I can smuggle some coffee in today..

Barbara Kulaszka - hard on the key points
Still waters running deep.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 10:54 am Post subject:

I had to leave the premises to get a wireless connection, but here are my notes from this morning. Please forgive any spelling/grammar problems:

Starting off with Barbara Kulaszka.

Doug Christie is in the Court of Appeal today. One lawyer representing all of the interested parties.

Barb: JR Book Online has become a huge part of this case now, at the end, but it wasn't in the beginning. It wasn't even included in the original complaint. The overwhelming majority of material in the complaint was from the FS messageboard. JR Books did not appear until Lemire received the investigator's report in 2005.

There is no prima facie case at all. No evidence at all to prove that Lemire is responsible for the content, or that he even helps to operate the site. The only evidence is a whois search that shows that Lemire registered the domain name. Barbara asked the complainant about his investigation on JB Books and he never did a search of the site for Lemire's name on that site, and he never emailed the address on the site. Warman admitted that the whois search was only prima facie evidence that Lemire owned the domain name when it was registered.

Hadjis: It reflects a snapshot in time, not an ongoing situation.

Barb: It doesn't show who owns the website or who is in control of it. All it shows is who registered the domain name. The Commission relies only on the whois search. Marc Lemire has a persona on his website. He always uses his real name. He has his photo on the Freedomsite and a real address. He posts on Stormfront and he uses his photograph and his real name and his real email address. The person who owns JR Books Online does not do that. JR Books Online is a totally different kind of website, as testified by Bernard Klatt. It is a primitive kind of website that doesn't look like the owner has a lot of expertise. It deals with old books. It looks like a way to make old books available. Freedomsite is a young site. It deals with current issues. This is all evidence that you have to look at to determine if the same person was responsible for two websites, if they would be so different. And, there is no other evidence other than the whois search that Lemire owns JR Books Online.

The only thing that is verifiable from a whois search is whether the domain name is available or not. There is a disclaimer on whois that the information may not be reliable. You can put any kind of information on there, it can be totally false.

Lemire was given a very short time to respond to the investigator's report. The respondent gave notice to the Commission that he had given notice to ICANN to correct the incorrect data, and the information was changed. Warman did not go to ICANN, despite the fact that he was given notice. Why didn't the Commission go to ICANN?

At the hearing, Warman testified that he knew was ICANN was, and he knew that it was on the top of the pyramid for domain registration, yet he never complained to ICANN.

Hannya Rizk was asked by Richard Warman not to tell Lemire about JR Books Online because he was going to go to the police about JR Books Online. He did that, and Rizk testified that she regretted not telling Lemire. She testified that it was Warman that gave her the training in how to do those searches. Other commission employees were surprised to hear this, because that was not Warman's job to give her the training. This corrupted the whole investigation because this was Rizk's first Section 13 complaint and Warman seems to have had too much influence over Hannya Rizk.

Rizk should be in independent investigator. It is outrageous that the complainant was teaching her to do the investigation.

In response to Hadjis' question about why Lemire didn't complain to Federal Court about the Commission's conduct, Kulaszka said, "If Mr. Lemire was a multi-millionaire, I'd be very happy to go to Federal Court".

Lemire registers domain names for people.

In cases where whois data has been used in tribunals, there has always been corraborating evidence.

Just before the hearing, Lemire was served with two large CDs with material from JR Books Online.

Without corroborating evidence, you should not find that Mr. Lemire is liable under Section 13 for JR Books Online.

The submission is that no prima facie case has been made, and Lemire has no case to answer.

Hadjis indicates that he wants Barbara to address the abuse of process.

The immigrant poem is a posting on the Stormfront website. It was allegedly printed off by Warman on the same day it was allegedly posted. URL does not show Stormfront, it shows an anonymizer called the-cloak.com.

Hadjis asks if this was in the original complaint, and she says it was not.

Hannya Rizk testified that Warman told her about the Canadian Immigrant Poem June 21, 2004. He laid the complaint in November 2003, Lemire learns of it the end of March 2004. In the meantime, Lemire took down the messageboard (before he knew of the complaint). Rizk wrote a memo that she could not access the board and it was disclosed when she brought the file to the hearing.

Barb presumed there was a little bit of panic because the complaint was "slipping away on them". In June, 2004, he comes up with the Immigrant Poem. Rizk gets notice of the poem in June, but it was allegedly printed in February. It was not revealed to the respondent for nearly a year.

He was given no opportunity to give his side of the story. The report was simply made recommending that the matter go to tribunal.

Rizk went on the Stormfront website, but she was never able to find the poem. In her report, Rizk states that the investigator's search did not reveal the poem, however, the investigation showed that Lemire was a member. When asked why she included it in the report, then, she replied, "To show what Mr. Warman had given me!".

This shows the undue influence that Warman had over Rizk. Bernard Klatt also looked for the poem in 2006 and he couldn't find it. The archives were part of the searchable database.

Hadjis: Is there an inferrence to be drawn that the poem was never there?

Barb: Mr. Warman's credibility is sadly lacking. Her job was to find the poem and she went there and couldn't find it. He doesn't even allege that it falls within Section 13, but she still included it.

When asked why he used the-cloak, Warman said he didn't remember...sometimes he used it, sometimes he didn't.

Her submission is that it should not be found that the poem was posted on Stormfront by the respondent. Even the url was not on the poem, it was just the-cloak.com. There is no prima facie case.

If you find that the poem was posted, I would submit that there was nothing wrong with that poem. If this poem comes within Taylor, what else is going to be caught. It is a satire. A commentary on the state of immigration. No person is exposed to hatred or contempt with Taylor by this poem.

Mr. Warman ran off this poem (he says) on the very day it was posted. Who could be exposed to hatred when he ran it off and it was gone. Who was going to be exposed to hatred or contempt?

Barbara suggested that there is no evidence that the poem was there for more than one day.

Taylor ruled that there had to be a series of messages, not just one message where a 100 people phoned in. There had to be a series of messages to show that they were using this public utility to promote hate propoganda. That is the problem when you get a whole series of precedents set by cases where people are unrepresented, or they don't show up.

The immigrant poem was posted on lots of sites that were not "neo-Nazi" sites, and it criticizes Canadians for allowing unfettered immigration.

Marc Lemire has 409 posts on Stormfront, yet Warman only had one posting by Marc Lemire that he entered as evidence (the immigrant poem). Out of all of these postings on Stormfront, Warman could only find one that allegedly falls within Section 13, and it is a poem that you can find on Discover Vancouver.

Warman's posting on Stormfront have already been found by a CHRC investigator as violating Section 13. It was not just one message, it was many messages. The complaint was dismissed as being vexatious, but the investigator did find that Warman's posts on Stormfront and VNN fell under Section 13. Taylor sets a very high bar, and the immigrant poem does not meet this test. It as also not been proven under the balance of probabilities that it was posted by Lemire, and there is no proof that it was there for more than one day.
_________________
"...single men must have access to donor eggs and “gestational carriers.” - David Johnston, Governor General Appointee
(The man Stephen Harper calls "the best of Canada")

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:00 am Post subject:

Show and tell time coming up

Big screen set up for graphics

----------

Mr Warman is a no-show again today.
Intervenors are at their desks flipping paper. They get to go up tomorrow.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:06 am Post subject:

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:06 am Post subject:

Kaluszka back up

preamble about subpeona to Rogers Cable re: Anne Cools posting in Sept 2003.

This posting goes to many issues in this case, the way message boards can be used to entrap a webmaster, entice others to make similar people (testing the virtue of other people) like throw it out and catch a few fish.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:15 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

talking about Warman's modus operandi -

relating to log files kept by Lemire who looks up the urls of Waarman's documents

saying Warman had the same IP address for each time.

saying the Anne Cools post has the same IP address as Warman as testified by Klatt making them one and the same.

Matching charaacteristics of two user profiles by Klatt
a) Anne Cools posting
b) Lucy

Warman was asked if he registered. Warman denied ever registereing on Freedomsite. Denies 3 times.

Reiterating that Warman said he stood corrected after Kaluszka confronted him. - 157 evasive answers

Showed him the user profile for Lucy - had a number of characteristics
giving the IP address of Lucy
saying same IP address
same browser IE
same windows version
same yahoo and hot mail
both set up accounts using anon emails
both loged on to message boards on twice for very short periodds
Lucy 120 minutes
Anne Cools poster 20 minutes
same fields filled in under user profiles

accounts created for single purposes

Warman to run off docs for evidence
Anne Cools - 14 minutes - one post, never to post again

talking about Warman's response to application for Rogers

{Lemire hands up ruling made by Hadjis - Dec/ 2006)
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:20 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

showing that Warman was relying upon everything on Freedomsite

Lemire's application for Rogers opped to by Warman and the Commission

The Commission and Warman restricted what was going to be on the tribunal, which then dropped the Anne Cools posting.

Application allowed by Hadjis
Warman brought application to quash the subpeona.

Affidavit obtained by Rogers - copy sjhown to Warman and Vigna in hearing room. Not seen by Hadjis.

Talking about Warman's excitement andd sspontaneous reading the paragraph about Rogers no longer having the data.

Asking why Warman would want that Rogers info which would exonerate him to be quashed and why he was so happy when Rogers no longer had the info.

Why did the Commission go along with that ?
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:22 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

talking about Warman's inclination and ability to post on message boards under psuedos.

Going through examples of Craig Harrison back in 2002 and Warman's anon names.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:23 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

On Stormfront the only people who use their real names are

Marc Lemire
Paul Fromm

everyone else uses psuedos

On Freedomsite, the only one using their real name is Marc Lemire
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

Posted: 09/ 16/ 08 11:26 am Post subject:

Kaluszka

On Freedomsite

Marc Lemire's name as owner/operator is posted
along with disclaaimer and method to contact the webmaster

-

Talking about how Warman didn't complain about Lemire's site for several years
until the day Paul Fromm files a complaint against Warman with the CHRC and posts some of this on Freedomsite.
_________________
Freedom really does not evolve, it revolts.

Today`s rebel is a conservative and fiscal responsibility has become the new counterculture!

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