Tory MP won't retract unborn crime bill

[JOE HUEGLIN]

The two-facedness is shown in the replacement Bill 464.


It can be considered ambiguous or contradictory in that section (5) can be interpreted as recognizing that an unborn child is a human being in that " It is not a defence to a charge under this section that the child is not a human being." then follows with (7), explicit statements permitting "Termination of pregnancy .

Suck and blow.
_________
BILL C-484
http://www2.parl.gc.ca/HousePublication ... 600&file=4
An Act to amend the Criminal Code (injuring or causing the death of an unborn child while committing an offence)

Exclusion of defence

(5) It is not a defence to a charge under this section that the child is not a human being.

Separate offence

(6) An offence referred to in this section committed against a child is not included in any offence committed against the mother of the child.

Termination of pregnancy and acts in good faith excluded

(7) For greater certainty, this section does not apply in respect of

(a) conduct relating to the lawful termination of the pregnancy of the mother of the child to which the mother has consented;

(b) an act or omission that a person acting in good faith considers necessary to preserve the life of the mother of the child or the life of the child; or

(c) any act or omission by the mother of the child.

[littleharbour]

Absolutely Orwellian. In the same sentence they refer to the unborn as a "child" while confirming the legal right for the child to be "terminated", i.e. killed. The charade of the "undifferentiated mass of fetal tissue" is falling and our government is now explicitly declaring the "right" to cold bloodedly murder a human child. Ohhhhhhhhhh Canada.

[politics101]

Harper is most pro abortion PM Canada has ever had.

That is simply over the top. More than Trudeau, Campbell, Clark, Chretien?

I agree. It is a bit of a stretch. Given that we're in an election period, the whole abortion thing is a big albatross around his neck.

[sassyone]

The Bill is not intended to legally interfere with the evil of abortion, but it is intended to start opening people's mind to the fact that our society permits such evil. The courts would never use the bill to overturn the current court-imposed ban on abortion, but the hope is that people will start to view the unborn child as a human being deserving of protection. What Epp's bill does is expose the hypocrisy of our entire establishment - media, politicians, academics, doctors, etc. - who think nothing of referring to someone's "unborn child" when it suits their purpose (like when berating chemical companies) and then dismissing the unborn as human garbage when it suits their lib-left feminist agenda. The social liberals - which include far too many here on FD - hate Epp's bill because if forces them to face the truth about the evil they have permitted to spread across our land. And as the saying goes, they can't handle the truth.

It also exposes the hypocrisy of the religious right. You are against abortion but most of you are for war. That is the true hypocrisy, and YOU can't handle it!
PM Harper has kept his promise, he will not reopen the abortion debate. You should actually get away from your computer and go and talk to these poor women and see how they feel. Did you know that a major reason doctors allow abortion is for mental health. It sure won't help the fetus if the mother kills herself. But since you've never actually talked to someone who had an abortion, how would you know that.

[Yoda]

The Bill is not intended to legally interfere with the evil of abortion, but it is intended to start opening people's mind to the fact that our society permits such evil. The courts would never use the bill to overturn the current court-imposed ban on abortion, but the hope is that people will start to view the unborn child as a human being deserving of protection. What Epp's bill does is expose the hypocrisy of our entire establishment - media, politicians, academics, doctors, etc. - who think nothing of referring to someone's "unborn child" when it suits their purpose (like when berating chemical companies) and then dismissing the unborn as human garbage when it suits their lib-left feminist agenda. The social liberals - which include far too many here on FD - hate Epp's bill because if forces them to face the truth about the evil they have permitted to spread across our land. And as the saying goes, they can't handle the truth.

It also exposes the hypocrisy of the religious right. You are against abortion but most of you are for war. That is the true hypocrisy, and YOU can't handle it!
PM Harper has kept his promise, he will not reopen the abortion debate. You should actually get away from your computer and go and talk to these poor women and see how they feel. Did you know that a major reason doctors allow abortion is for mental health. It sure won't help the fetus if the mother kills herself. But since you've never actually talked to someone who had an abortion, how would you know that.

You are a typical liberal. You are completely at ease killing a helpless, innocent child, but object to putting away murderers,rapists,etc.

[thinkright]

It also exposes the hypocrisy of the religious right. You are against abortion but most of you are for war. That is the true hypocrisy, and YOU can't handle it!

You haven't made any case for why this is hypocritical. Simply stating it is without any support to justify your view doesn't cut it. It also doesn't make it true. So far, you've supported virtually nothing of what you've said and accused others of. Since you feel you understand things so clearly, I'm assuming you can justify your allegations and views. Perhaps you should start trying because until then, you have no credibility.

[Ipberg2]

You are against abortion but most of you are for war. That is the true hypocrisy, and YOU can't handle it!

We are consistently in protecting innocent life even to the point of fighting those who murder and maim.

[littleharbour]

The Bill is not intended to legally interfere with the evil of abortion, but it is intended to start opening people's mind to the fact that our society permits such evil. The courts would never use the bill to overturn the current court-imposed ban on abortion, but the hope is that people will start to view the unborn child as a human being deserving of protection. What Epp's bill does is expose the hypocrisy of our entire establishment - media, politicians, academics, doctors, etc. - who think nothing of referring to someone's "unborn child" when it suits their purpose (like when berating chemical companies) and then dismissing the unborn as human garbage when it suits their lib-left feminist agenda. The social liberals - which include far too many here on FD - hate Epp's bill because if forces them to face the truth about the evil they have permitted to spread across our land. And as the saying goes, they can't handle the truth.

It also exposes the hypocrisy of the religious right. You are against abortion but most of you are for war. That is the true hypocrisy, and YOU can't handle it!
PM Harper has kept his promise, he will not reopen the abortion debate. You should actually get away from your computer and go and talk to these poor women and see how they feel. Did you know that a major reason doctors allow abortion is for mental health. It sure won't help the fetus if the mother kills herself. But since you've never actually talked to someone who had an abortion, how would you know that.

You're right and I'll support war against any whacko who tries to attack the freedoms we enjoy in the west, especially if they are your comrades. I've spoken to a number of women who have had abortions and even dated a young lady many years ago who I later learned had gone through that horrid experience at the insistence of family and "friends". Most are still traumatized by it years later. It's the Christians of the world who reach out to these victims of liberal madness while the Morgentaler's of the world are at the bank cashing their government subsidized butcher's bill. Stay on FD for a few months and you may actually learn something.

[sassyone]

You are a typical liberal. You are completely at ease killing a helpless, innocent child, but object to putting away murderers,rapists,etc.

You don't know me, and I am voting for PM Harper (again). I want murderers, rapists and pedophiles to go to jail. I just don't want the women who you classify as murderers to go to jail. But since none of you have ever talked to any woman who had an abortion, you will never know what they had to go through. You would sooner throw them in jail with the rest of the criminals. While you're at it, you should talk to a member of the Canadian Forces who has killed someone. Check out how they feel. Don't get me wrong, I love the Canadian Forces and back them all the way. I guess it's just so easy as a Christian, to be able to "put those blinders on".

[sassyone]

You haven't made any case for why this is hypocritical. Simply stating it is without any support to justify your view doesn't cut it. It also doesn't make it true. So far, you've supported virtually nothing of what you've said and accused others of. Since you feel you understand things so clearly, I'm assuming you can justify your allegations and views. Perhaps you should start trying because until then, you have no credibility.

My views are common knowledge. It's not my problem that you can't see it. Instead Jason finds the first news article that states that the Canadian Forces are not the aggressors. Then some of you state that they have to be the aggressors. You can't even be in agreement on whether the Canadian Forces are the aggressors or not. Your inability to see the hypocrisy in being against abortion and for war. Why do Christians feel they have the moral authority to decide who lives and who dies. Who are murderers and who are not. If you're doing it for your country, it can't be murder. I have never been able to understand the ability to try and justify this like so many of you have on this thread. Must be a lot easier for Christians to kill non Christians.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.

[littleharbour]

You haven't made any case for why this is hypocritical. Simply stating it is without any support to justify your view doesn't cut it. It also doesn't make it true. So far, you've supported virtually nothing of what you've said and accused others of. Since you feel you understand things so clearly, I'm assuming you can justify your allegations and views. Perhaps you should start trying because until then, you have no credibility.

My views are common knowledge. It's not my problem that you can't see it. Instead Jason finds the first news article that states that the Canadian Forces are not the aggressors. Then some of you state that they have to be the aggressors. You can't even be in agreement on whether the Canadian Forces are the aggressors or not. Your inability to see the hypocrisy in being against abortion and for war. Why do Christians feel they have the moral authority to decide who lives and who dies. Who are murderers and who are not. If you're doing it for your country, it can't be murder. I have never been able to understand the ability to try and justify this like so many of you have on this thread. Must be a lot easier for Christians to kill non Christians.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.

Last time I checked it was the non-Christian (and all too often anti-Christian) government who decides when and where the country goes to war. Considering that Canada has only been in one war in the last 55 years, your analysis has no basis in fact. Last time I checked it was muslim women and children for whom Canadian soldiers were dying for and that none of those soldiers had to undergo a test to determine if they were Christian before heading off to Afghanistan. I can't figure out if you're an islamist or merely another muddle-headed western liberal, but in either case you're arguments are specious.

[thinkright]

My views are common knowledge.

Yes, there are many of your views that are common knowledge, however, your justification for those views and your slander of others go unsupported. Unless you can show me, in one of your 33 posts, a post where you've justified, solidly, your case, that being anti-abortion and pro-Afghanistan war is hypocrisy. So far, all you have been is a mouthpiece for opinion, and the justification and foundation for such, absent.

Instead Jason finds the first news article that states that the Canadian Forces are not the aggressors. Then some of you state that they have to be the aggressors. You can't even be in agreement on whether the Canadian Forces are the aggressors or not. Your inability to see the hypocrisy in being against abortion and for war. Why do Christians feel they have the moral authority to decide who lives and who dies. Who are murderers and who are not. If you're doing it for your country, it can't be murder. I have never been able to understand the ability to try and justify this like so many of you have on this thread. Must be a lot easier for Christians to kill non Christians.
Hypocrisy at it's finest.

TRANSLATION:

I can't support my views, I don't even fully understand them. I just regurgitate the opinions of the far left. Who needs justification or support, by the way, you're a hypocrite.

[sassyone]

You're right and I'll support war against any whacko who tries to attack the freedoms we enjoy in the west, especially if they are your comrades. I've spoken to a number of women who have had abortions and even dated a young lady many years ago who I later learned had gone through that horrid experience at the insistence of family and "friends". Most are still traumatized by it years later. It's the Christians of the world who reach out to these victims of liberal madness while the Morgentaler's of the world are at the bank cashing their government subsidized butcher's bill. Stay on FD for a few months and you may actually learn something.

I certainly hope so Little Harbour. No one I know whose had an abortion ever went to anyone other than their regular medical doctor, who set up the appointment at the hospital. Rail against Morgentaler all you want, he was never a part of the decisions that were made by women I know. I refuse to judge them as murderers because I've never walked a mile in their shoes. And if you were truly the Christian that you claim to be, you would "judge not, lest ye be judged". Plus the latest stats on abortion in 2005 confirmed that the abortion rate is lower. How can that be, as our population is only increasing?

[The Gooch]

Plus the latest stats on abortion in 2005 confirmed that the abortion rate is lower. How can that be, as our population is only increasing?

You do know the concept of "rate" right? Just because the rate of abortions is going down it doesn't mean the outlook of Canadians are any different. And why wouldn't the rate go down, we becoming an aging society with less of the population percentage belonging to those that are fertile.

[Karthanon]

Unfortunately the Canadian Forces have been shown to be the aggressors.

By who? Not you. Not here. Because that's not the case.

You are delusional if you really believe that the Canadian Forces have not been the aggressors at times.

Proofs, please! Or at least enlighten us with your justification(s) for the above.

You have google, look it up yourself. I'm not your mother!

Haha! Thank goodness for that, but nice funny, besides. Normally in a Internet discussion the onus is on the person stating 'facts' to link said proof of facts. for general netiqette. But I'll humor you.

Googling "Canadian Military aggressor" gets me a first link about Russia vs Georgia, a page on Interwar years for the Canadian Military, and a bit on a U.S. Air Force group called The Aggressors. The only thing close is a bit from CTV.ca (which I will do you the courtesy of linking, http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20080611/taliban_senators_080611/20080611?hub=TopStories - if the link function works, that is..) which isn't about the Canadian Military being an agressor, but rather how we should 'talk' with the Taliban.

No? We'll restrict it to Afghanistan, then. Adding "Afghanistan" to the search term results in a blog posting with someone's opinion about why the military is not an aggressor (http://thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com/2006/03/whether-you-like-it-or-not-our.html), a posting by a Paula Kirman on why troops should pull out of Afghanistan (http://peacemaking.suite101.com/article.cfm/why_canada_must_leave_afghanistan), but really nothing concrete on what exactly makes the Canadian Military an aggressor.

Once again, please link your sources. Facts, not opinions - we want to be all about facts, don't we?

Of course, you didn't respond to this, sassyone. I didn't expect you to, either. /shrug

Plus the latest stats on abortion in 2005 confirmed that the abortion rate is lower. How can that be, as our population is only increasing?

Great, the abortion rate is lower, but as you say our population is going up. And how can that be? Um...just maybe, perhaps, immigration? Unless you believe that the increase is from people popping up out of thin air...