Freedom & The Common Good

News that affects all of Canada, including Canadian Bills of Parliament and the Senate, the Firearms Registration Act and other Laws and Bills that are national in scope and affect us all.

Freedom & The Common Good

Postby Paycheck » 01/ 30/ 08 11:59 pm

The debate over free speech that has been precipitated by Ezra Levant’s appearance before the Alberta Human Rights Commission has inflamed the passions of Canadians about our inalienable rights to free speech, one of the fundamental cornerstones of our democracy. While there have been a few people defending the HRCs and their jackboot star chambers, the overwhelming reaction has ranged from utter contempt and rage to mild disapproval. Generally speaking, the further right on the political scale, the more likely one is to share the former sentiments.

Stepping back from the hornet’s nest, for a moment, however, I would like to offer some comments on the tension between freedom of speech and legitimate restrictions thereon. Let me first say that most of us really do not believe in pure free speech. There are indeed necessary and reasonable limits to free speech that many of us in a civil and free society implicitly accept. And why do we accept them? For what purpose? Well, one reason is to uphold basic justice. Another reason is for something called the common good; that is, something that is necessary for the equitable functioning of society which benefits all its members.

The common good is a notion that originated over two thousand years ago in the writings of Plato, Aristotle, and Cicero. More recently, the contemporary ethicist, John Rawls, defined the common good as “certain general conditions that are…equally to everyone’s advantage“. The Catholic religious tradition, which has a long history of struggling to define and promote the common good, defines it as “the sum of those conditions of social life which allow social groups and their individual members relatively thorough and ready access to their own fulfillment.” The common good, then, consists primarily of having the social systems, institutions, and environments on which we all depend work in a manner that benefits all people. (Source)


In concrete terms, we will find a near unanimous belief with protecting some aspects of the common good at the expense of pure free speech. So, in a sense, it is inaccurate to say that we are “for free speech”. Precisely speaking, we are for free speech provided that it does not encroach on X, Y, or Z. What are some examples of X, Y, and Z? Let’s take a look at it on various levels.

“Civic” Level: This is the level where most free speech proponents find themselves. For this group, if speech does not encroach on the bare minimum for the civil ordering of society, then it should be permitted. Examples on this level include:

1) copyright infringement 2) impersonation 3) fraud 4) tort defamation 5) confidentiality provisions 6) conspiracy to commit a crime 7) incitement to riot 8] breaching the official secrets act

Suffice it to say, most people do not consider these conditions to restrict free speech per se, although technically they are restrictions on free speech. It is important for us to realize that we accept these restrictions implicitly without sometimes thinking about why they are required in a general sense. As I mentioned earlier, we believe these restrictions are necessary because they serve the common good. You cannot have someone, for instance, going around ripping off literary work or conspiring to commit murder or exchanging secrets with our country’s enemies. All of these things have a direct impact on the health of our society whether it be to our economy, to the security of the person, or to our national security. Almost everyone in our society, therefore, (except perhaps looney anarchists) accepts that there are some very basic restrictions that need to be placed on the citizens of a functioning democracy. Without these restrictions and boundaries, our society would quickly unravel into chaos. Yet, as a society we generally do not consider these items to be restrictions on free speech because the importance of the common good on this level is so necessary for our society that any alternative opinion is simply not tolerated. The important thing to realize, however, is that strictly speaking, the common good does indeed have a part to play in this debate. The question then becomes just how far will citizens of a democracy allow the common good to encroach on so-called “free speech” rights.

“Moral” Level: The next level up from the civic level is the moral realm. This is the place where some people on opposite sides of the political spectrum oddly find common cause. For instance, the most prominent and contentious example on this level - at least from a socially conservative point of view - is the use of pornographic “art” under the guise of “free speech”. Porn apologists claim that since they have the right to free speech, pornography should be permitted. And yet, the studies have suggested, if not conclusively shown, the incredibly destructive power that pornography has had on our western culture: addiction, divorce, the objectivization of women and children, increase in sexual violence, destroyer of family, marriages, and children, among many other adverse and tragic social consequences. Pornography therefore is a perfect example where the confrontation between free speech and the common good comes into sharp focus. Unlike a purely political issue where there is room for disagreement on what constitutes “justice” or “truth”, it is much more difficult to frame the question of pornography as being anything other than a right to be sexually stimulated at the expense of women and children. And while this is an issue usually championed by the right side of the political spectrum, the Canadian Supreme Court, a leftist judicial body if there ever was one, agrees:

Take pornography, for instance. Much of it is made in the United States. Some of it crosses the border and is sold in Canada. But there are limits to what Canadians will tolerate as protected speech in this area. In 1992, the Supreme Court of Canada in the Butler case upheld a section of the Canadian Criminal Code which banned the publication and distribution of obscene material. The law had been challenged on the ground that it infringed freedom of expression in a way that was not justifiable under s. 1 of the Canadian Charter. The Supreme Court disagreed. It unanimously held that freedom of expression was infringed by this section of the Criminal Code, but added that the state had a right to outlaw pornography which qualifies as an undue exploitation of sex, such as where the portrayal of sex is coupled with violence, involves children, or is degrading or dehumanizing. One of the key concerns was the risk that such pornography may be harmful to women and children and to society generally. In accepting generalized risk as a reasonable basis for limiting free expression, Justice Sopinka of my Court quoted approvingly this conclusion from a House of Commons Committee:

The effect of this type of material is to reinforce male-female stereotypes to the detriment of both sexes. It attempts to make degradation, humiliation, victimization and violence in human relationships appear normal and acceptable. A society which holds that egalitarianism, non-violence, consensualism, and mutuality are basic to any human interaction, whether sexual or other, is clearly justified in controlling and prohibiting any medium of depiction, description or advocacy which violates these principles (R. v. Butler, 1992] 1 S.C.R. 452, at p. 494, citing the MacGuigan Report of 1978). (Remarks of the Right Honourable Beverley McLachlin, P.C. Protecting Constitutional Rights: A Comparative View of the United States and Canada April 5, 2004 | Remarks of the Right Honourable Beverley McLachlin, P.C. Chief Justice of Canada 2nd Canadian Distinguished Annual Address Center for the Study of Canada Plattsburg State University Plattsburg, New York April 5, 2004)


And even if an objector would dispute whether pornography really is harmful to our western culture, the general principle of an objective harm is still a valid one; namely, where there is a clear link between a particular kind of expression and an assault on the common good of a culture, what role does the State have to play in this situation? Are we to say that the role of the State is to stand idly by and watch its institutions and the culture, which it is supposed to protect, fall into ruin because the State, like some kind of political eunuch, is unable to act when it should? Would we not expect the State to act against an internal cancer and root it out just like it does on the “civic” level? And if violent pornography has been so sanitized and accepted by our culture that it passes as legitimate free speech regardless of its adverse consequences, there are other examples which could be substituted to make the same point. Consider another example like a popular suicide cult spreading its poisonous messages to teenagers. Would the State not have a role in suppressing such speech even though it would be a consensual act on the part of the participant much like pornography is? Another example would be the issue of euthanasia. Many people would consider this a form of freedom of expression, no less than porn is. Both acts claim the automonous right to do with their bodies as they see fit, yet both expressions are objective attacks on the human dignity and our disabled community. On the Left side of the spectrum, proponents point to so-called “hate speech” laws in order to protect certain minorities from harm that could result from such speech as occurred in Germany before Hitler took power.

“Political” Level: The final category is what I call the “political” level where opinion is directed at a particular ideology or historical or contemporary figure. It can take the form of speech or visual art. Take, for instance, Benedict’s speech at Regensburg, Germany last year which caused an uproar in the Muslim world (egged on by our liberal secularists in the MSM). Incidentally, the speech was mostly a slam against liberal theology and not Islam per se. Still, in the speech, the Pope made the following comment about Islam and Muhammed:

In the seventh conversation (διάλεξις - controversy) edited by Professor Khoury, the emperor touches on the theme of the holy war. The emperor must have known that surah 2, 256 reads: “There is no compulsion in religion”. According to some of the experts, this is probably one of the suras of the early period, when Mohammed was still powerless and under threat. But naturally the emperor also knew the instructions, developed later and recorded in the Qur’an, concerning holy war. Without descending to details, such as the difference in treatment accorded to those who have the “Book” and the “infidels”, he addresses his interlocutor with a startling brusqueness, a brusqueness that we find unacceptable, on the central question about the relationship between religion and violence in general, saying: “Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.”[3] The emperor, after having expressed himself so forcefully, goes on to explain in detail the reasons why spreading the faith through violence is something unreasonable. Violence is incompatible with the nature of God and the nature of the soul. “God”, he says, “is not pleased by blood - and not acting reasonably (σὺν λόγω) is contrary to God’s nature. Faith is born of the soul, not the body. Whoever would lead someone to faith needs the ability to speak well and to reason properly, without violence and threats… To convince a reasonable soul, one does not need a strong arm, or weapons of any kind, or any other means of threatening a person with death…”.


The historical fact about Islam is that it was spread through and by the sword and if you were to encapsulate what the fourteen century Byzantine Emperor Manuel II Paleologus said above, just how would you do it in a visual form? No doubt whatever was chosen would be offensive to Islamicists since it would be representing Mohammed in a very unflattering light. Fast forward to the twenty-first century and the violence of Islam against the West. How could an editorial cartoon express such violence, if not by the Danish cartoons which caused the outrage? Is that not a legitimate visual representation of the violence that Islam has propagated? The point is that the cartoon — far from simply being printed to cause offense for offensiveness sake — points to a truth about the history of Islam and its more aggressive elements today. (One only has to survey Christians living in Muslims lands to understand what political Islam is all about, and it’s not a pretty picture.) Whether it was offensive or not does not detract from the question of whether someone should have the right to portray the violence of Islam in a cartoon.

The Truth Will Set You Free

The underlying strength of freedom of speech is that we believe that the TRUTH will eventually win out in determining what the reality points to. There is an implicit assumption in the western ethos that, although there will be conflict and division over many issues, in the end, when it’s all said and done, the truth will prevail. Yet the prevalence of that truth relies on the ability to speak freely and without encumbrance — otherwise our society will begin to erode and disintegrate, relying on a protected propositions which may be objectively false and erroneous. This great gift of free speech, however costly it might be to personal sensitivities, is too important for the future of a democracy and a civilization to be gutted because of hurt feelings or marginalization. Moreover, when is truth subject to an “offensiveness” test? If a political or social portrayal oversteps the boundary of offensiveness set by government functionaries, does it stop being any less truthful? We live in an offensive world where the truth really did hurt and continues to hurt. No foolish law on “offensiveness” or a farcical kangaroo kourt which administers it is going to change that. If anything, such star chamber tribunals only exacerbate and inflame the conflict by attempting to subject the truth to an “offensiveness barometer”.

Christians have long understood this principle and realized that a free society has certain costs attached to it. The cost is offense, slander, marginalization, vilification, etc. etc. These are not pleasant things. In fact, they could very well lead to more unpleasant things. But the alternative in this zero-sum game is far worse since it would seek to muzzle something that could be necessary for the very survival of a nation.

Image

This cartoon is one of Thomas Nast’s most famous. It depicts Roman Catholic clergy as crocodiles invading America’s shore to devour the nation’s schoolchildren–white, black, American Indian, and Chinese. (The white children are prominent in front, the rest are in the background.) The public school building stands as a fortress against the threat of theocracy, but it has been bombarded and flies Old Glory upside down to signal distress.Education in nineteenth-century America was provided by a variety of private, charitable, public, and combined public-private institutions, with the public school movement gaining strength over the decades. A major political issue during the 1870s was whether state and municipal governments should allocate funds for religiously affiliated schools, many of which were Roman Catholic. In most public schools, the Protestant version of the Bible was read, Protestant prayers were uttered, and Protestant teachers taught Protestant moral lessons. (Notice the boy in the cartoon who protects the younger students from the Catholic onslaught carries a Bible in his coat.) Catholic (and some Protestant) leaders asked that parochial schools receive their fair share of public funds. Protestant defenders of public schools erroneously considered that request to be an attempt by Catholics to destroy the spreading public school system. (Source)


We encounter problems in civilization when there is a separation of the objective moral order. Our modern society is replete with examples of two goods which need to act in concert with one another actually being placed in opposition to one another. The citizens of a democratic nation must have full and complete freedom to search and discuss issues that are confronting society, but with that freedom comes the moral obligation to seek and speak about the truth. The more freedom of expression departs from seeking the truth to engage in something which attacks the truth, the more it opens itself up to State “correction” by the imposition of an opposite error, and eventually, possible tyranny. Freedom itself cannot be independent of its ultimate objective which is the truth.

In his remarks to the Alberta Human Rights Commission, Ezra Levant made the very prescient observation that only through free speech has western civilization been able to advance. This is true. Free speech provided the means for the advancement but it was not the cause or source of it. The truth was the source of the advancement. Although modern society is loathe to admit it, there is indeed such a thing as an abuse of freedom, and an abuse of freedom can have and does have ominous consequences for our society, as our deteriorating social conditions in the West clearly demonstrate. Therefore, it is not free speech per se that leads to a free, peaceful, and prosperous culture but rather the Judeo Christian traditions under-girding it. It is no coincidence that the West has been able to prosper because it found the proper balance between the truth and the responsible exercise of free inquiry and criticism. And it is equally not surprising that as we remove the Judeo-Christian foundation, leaving free speech without a sure foundation, free speech itself, instead of injecting blood in to the body, will start to inject poison and then eventually destroy our society. Just because we have been given the keys to the car doesn’t mean we can’t crash and burn. Free speech is no guarantee of advancement or prosperity. It must be the servant of the truth in order for it to really benefit and serve the individual and society. If it seeks to distance itself from the truth simply to be maximally offensive, then it really is advocating a pseudo anarchy.

If we begin to treat freedom of speech as an end in itself, without reference to a genuine search for the truth, we will suffer the consequences. While living under the yoke tyranny is the worst possible scenario, anarchy and societal collapse brought about by licentious speech and expression is a close second, and it will eventually lead, by necessity, to an imposition of a dictatorship to restore order. We cannot blindly believe that ”maximally offensive speech” by two competing groups in our society will not have lethal consequences down the road. To believe this is to engage in wishful and foolish thinking. The reality is that the more unreasonable, offensive and damaging our speech, the more the common good is eroded when it does not have truth as its object. The more offensive and false something is, the more it attacks civilization and bring us that much closer to anarchy which, in turn, brings us that much closer to the tyranny we are seeking to avoid. At the end of the day, as we realize that “free speech” has both salvatory and ominous consequences, that it can lead to the betterment of society or its demolition, it is all the more urgent that all citizens take an active role in seeking to identify and then defend the common good to ensure those who misuse their freedom do not win the day. That is the only way to ensure that both the common good and freedom are preserved. We cannot have one without the other. The real security for a civilization cannot rely on either license or star chamber thuggery. This is a legal fiction because we cannot merely rely on a system or a legal way of saving an internally corrupt culture. Legalism, in the service or in the constraint of free speech, will not save us.

Why, for instance, does society see the issue of defamation as a matter of justice rather than as a matter of free speech? Because we still have a sense (even today) of the sin of falsely ruining someone’s reputation. Strictly speaking, it is indeed a matter of free speech, but we have removed it from the “free speech” debate because we all recognize the common good inherent in protecting the good reputation of all citizens. But imagine if our culture were to regain the sense of an objective truth and start to include other issues in this same “protected civic class”? Consider pornography. What if, as a society, we were to recognize the objective attack of pornography on the dignity of women - where we would consider porn no less an attack on human dignity as we do defamation? Would we still be having the debate over whether porn was a matter of free speech? Of course not. An earnest examination and search for the truth allows our society to not only uphold the common good, but also preserve free speech for those issues which are legitimately open to disagreement.

The Current State

The great problem in our culture today is that we have lost the consensus of what the common good is. Our society is so fractured among various special interest groups and world views that any attempt to protect the “common good” as conceived by a small number of political power brokers is invariably seen by the other side as an encroachment on their freedoms. The further we move away from an objective moral and social standard, the more arbitrary the manufactured standard becomes, the imposition of which is perceived as a totalitarian effort. The truth binds a society together in such a way to protect both the common good and authentic freedom. Conversely, the further we move away from this truth, the further away we move from the common good and freedom. This is very dangerous to our society since it means people are pushed to the boundaries of this debate. Those who are currently marginalized and have politically incorrect opinion want to recapture their rightful freedoms that have been immorally stripped from them. To do this, they are more prone to have only the very minimum restriction on freedom of expression, even if it led to an immediate and present danger against the common good. Conversely, those who want to protect their idea of the common good (however false it is) would prefer to impose it on the public and restrict freedom of expression.

Ultimately, however, when the common good and free speech are placed in opposition to one another, as is the case today, and where there is no agreement on what the common good is, it is paramount that freedom of speech be preserved despite the risks involved. The reason for this, of course, is because only through freedom of speech can our civilization be exposed to what the common good is or is not. The common good is reached through dialogue and debate, through the free exchange of ideas, and the refinement thereof. It does not come from the Star Chambers or any of its members.

http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/?p=487
Socon Or Bust: http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/

This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce)
User avatar
Paycheck
 
Posts: 3071
Joined: 04/ 29/ 05 5:05 pm

Postby Rohan01 » 01/ 31/ 08 12:22 am

How does each restriction affect man's inhumanity to man.

Wouldn't this be a succinct encapsulation of what we are aiming for.

Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant would have cause to go after the HRTs and HRCs because they shed the light of scrutiny on what frankly prefers the shadows because what is done in secret reveals character.

As for those who conclude that there were powerful people scared of President Reagan (Richard Pipes writes about this in his autobiography), then the light of scrutiny will reveal what it reveals. All without a usurping of due process.

The thought occurred to me: when it comes to criminal justice, victims rights are given lighter weight than the rights of criminals because of the dangers of a lack of objectivity on behalf of the victim. But, where is the hesitation when it comes to the HRCs and HRTs? Less resources are employed
to process a Human Rights complaint than what is case in the criminal justice system.

All in all, an excellent essay paycheck!
Rohan01
 
Posts: 2712
Joined: 05/ 14/ 07 12:34 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Postby Paycheck » 01/ 31/ 08 12:28 am

Rohan01 wrote:How does each restriction affect man's inhumanity to man.

Wouldn't this be a succinct encapsulation of what we are aiming for.

Mark Steyn and Ezra Levant would have cause to go after the HRTs and HRCs because they shed the light of scrutiny on what frankly prefers the shadows because what is done in secret reveals character.

As for those who conclude that there were powerful people scared of President Reagan (Richard Pipes writes about this in his autobiography), then the light of scrutiny will reveal what it reveals. All without a usurping of due process.

The thought occurred to me: when it comes to criminal justice, victims rights are given lighter weight than the rights of criminals because of the dangers of a lack of objectivity on behalf of the victim. But, where is the hesitation when it comes to the HRCs and HRTs? Less resources are employed
to process a Human Rights complaint than what is case in the criminal justice system.

All in all, an excellent essay paycheck!


Thanks Rohan, but honestly, I think I butchered it. I have been sitting on this for weeks and finally just dumped it on my blog.

The conflict between the common good and freedom (both goods in their own right and necessary) has caused many of us to be in positions we would rather not be.

I cannot in all honesty agree that porn is a legitimate expression of freedom of speech, even though I know most people on this board would disagree with me. I just see it as a gratuitous attack on the dignity of women.

What I was trying to get at (and not very well I might add) is that society in general must willingly move toward putting objectionable free speech into the "civic category" i.e. defamation, incitement to riot, etc. where no one would ever dream of allowing those sorts of things.

But it must be done in a societal consensus via the truth about the subject...and of course that can only happen through freedom of speech.
Socon Or Bust: http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/

This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce)
User avatar
Paycheck
 
Posts: 3071
Joined: 04/ 29/ 05 5:05 pm

Postby Rohan01 » 01/ 31/ 08 12:32 am

Paycheck, at least we have a clearer idea of what to strive for rather than "checking lust for power regardless of which guise it takes".

For that, nicely done! :)
Rohan01
 
Posts: 2712
Joined: 05/ 14/ 07 12:34 pm
Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Postby Paycheck » 01/ 31/ 08 12:40 am

Rohan01 wrote:Paycheck, at least we have a clearer idea of what to strive for rather than "checking lust for power regardless of which guise it takes".

For that, nicely done! :)


Well, hopefully a real intellectual will come in and start highlighting the real issues in this debate instead of the pop stuff we have seen so far. Don't get me wrong, I love the entertainment. :lol: :hurray:

As I see it, there are two issues:

1) Correctly identifying the common good.

2) Understanding that true freedom is subject to truth while mere license is not.

People have a very disjointed view of what "freedom" means these days. The more it is abused, the more we pave the road to the loss of our civil freedoms.

Come to think of it, isn't that what's happening now in Canada? We have become so morally corrupt and weak in refusing to acknowledge our Judeo-Christian heritage that our very fundamental freedoms are now at risk.

I hardly think that is a coincidence. It only goes to show that sin and the error that undergirds it leads to enslavement and eventual societal collapse.

I just hope the next dictator who comes around to restore order when the whole thing pops is a benevolent one.
Socon Or Bust: http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/

This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce)
User avatar
Paycheck
 
Posts: 3071
Joined: 04/ 29/ 05 5:05 pm

Postby TomFoolery » 01/ 31/ 08 2:29 am

The truth of it is this:

People recognize when they are party to the common good and as rational creatures would reasonably comply as they recognize their self-interest at stake in such restraint.

The exact reason why HRC restrictions do NOT fly - they are a tool to ensure the social strangling of the traditional culture that exists. It is a tool of social revolution to which the majority traditional culture has very few defences. (and, quite frankly isn't even given the benefit and protection of the law in instances where the majority culture is flagrantly abused as in the AHC case of "Kill the Christian".

Also note the HRC action being brought on a POLITICAL PARTY.
TomFoolery
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: 12/ 18/ 05 2:16 am

Postby TomFoolery » 01/ 31/ 08 2:41 am

Another point is this:

IN "civil" cases, you retain your freedom of speech, you just have to pay the financial damages for exercising it....your are not legally deprived of your right.

Human rights actions give such thinkgs such as 'lifetime prohibitions' - which essentially criminalize you for any future infractions.
TomFoolery
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: 12/ 18/ 05 2:16 am

Postby Peter O'Donnell » 01/ 31/ 08 3:01 am

In reality, the HRC system gives a private citizen the opportunity to amass a private army (the police) and create a level of government (whoever he may befriend in the kangaroo court system) so that he can enrich himself and punish dissenters to his ideology.

Only a few have availed themselves of this opportunity so far, but the word will spread -- it's fun, it's lucrative, and it beats working.
User avatar
Peter O'Donnell
 
Posts: 13005
Joined: 03/ 10/ 05 10:12 pm
Location: LOCATION: BC ... AVATAR photo ... Jacob's Chair, southeast Utah

Postby TomFoolery » 01/ 31/ 08 3:12 am

Anybody here ever study the outdated legal practice of Private Prosecution ? that was outlawed in our Common Law history .... until the RHC's restored it...
TomFoolery
 
Posts: 6451
Joined: 12/ 18/ 05 2:16 am

Postby Felix Culpa » 01/ 31/ 08 7:31 am

Paycheck wrote:If we begin to treat freedom of speech as an end in itself, without reference to a genuine search for the truth, we will suffer the consequences.

Good point. Must always keep the end in mind.
Before Christ's second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the 'mystery of iniquity' in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth... --CCC #675
User avatar
Felix Culpa
 
Posts: 8527
Joined: 04/ 15/ 05 10:27 am

Postby The Devil's Advocate » 01/ 31/ 08 12:18 pm

Felix Culpa wrote:
Paycheck wrote:If we begin to treat freedom of speech as an end in itself, without reference to a genuine search for the truth, we will suffer the consequences.

Good point. Must always keep the end in mind.


But why must truth have to be the goal at all? Is freedom of speech only necessary so, in the end, we all believe the same thing? Does commonality of belief equal truth?

After reading all of this, as understanding most (some?) of it, all I can state is I believe freedom is the common good. The more free a society is is, the more common good exists.
The Devil's Advocate
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: 07/ 20/ 07 2:49 pm
Location: Cranbrook, BC

Postby civic.duty » 01/ 31/ 08 12:24 pm

Sorry but anytime some one uses the term "COMMON GOOD", it is code for more socialist/prgressive programs to destroy the self reliance that man needs to truly be free.

America's abundance was created not by public sacrifices to the common good, but by the productive genius of free men who pursued their own personal interests and the making of their own private fortunes.
Ann Rand
Last edited by civic.duty on 01/ 31/ 08 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
civic.duty
 
Posts: 320
Joined: 01/ 13/ 08 10:58 am

Postby The Devil's Advocate » 01/ 31/ 08 12:26 pm

Frank Harding wrote:
The Devil's Advocate wrote:
Felix Culpa wrote:
Paycheck wrote:If we begin to treat freedom of speech as an end in itself, without reference to a genuine search for the truth, we will suffer the consequences.

Good point. Must always keep the end in mind.


But why must truth have to be the goal at all?


Yes, because only the truth will set you free.


From what, exactly?
The Devil's Advocate
 
Posts: 5709
Joined: 07/ 20/ 07 2:49 pm
Location: Cranbrook, BC

Postby Frankie » 01/ 31/ 08 12:30 pm

People shouldn't have to be correct to have the freedom to express their opinion. Having the choice to listen & decide for ones self is also a freedom. Knowing all sides of anything helps us better understand it’s nature.
The opinions expressed by the above poster are his own and do not necessarily reflect the views and opinions of the forum's moderators or owners. Questions and comments can be sent to the boy on the right.
User avatar
Frankie
 
Posts: 6662
Joined: 03/ 30/ 03 3:08 am
Location: Ontario

Postby Paycheck » 01/ 31/ 08 1:11 pm

Frankie wrote:People shouldn't have to be correct to have the freedom to express their opinion. Having the choice to listen & decide for ones self is also a freedom. Knowing all sides of anything helps us better understand it’s nature.


You are correct in one sense, Frankie. But here is the rub: if we don't seek the truth and simply advocate for something which we know is not true or should know is not true, then that has very serious consequences for our society.

Porn
Suicide Cults
Satanic Cults
Euthanasia

are examples of this.

If a teenager was given the keys to the house for his enjoyment when his parents went on vacation and he trashed the place with a party with his friends, would we all say "Ah yes, freedom is a great thing!"

No, we would clearly point out that he had abused his freedom. If he stayed within the reasonable boundaries, he could enjoy authentic freedom. Stepping outside the boundaries of truth turns freedom into license.

And license will kill us - as individuals and as a society.

I am not advocating censorship. But what I am advocating is a better appreciation of the common good so that our freedoms are preserved.

Freedom does not exist in some kind of "divine vacuum" being guaranteed to us no matter what we say or what we do. The Jews of the Old Testament thought that and we all know what happened to them. God showed them otherwise. The same fate awaits us if we abuse our freedoms or, AND THIS NEEDS TO BE EQUALLY ASSERTED, we refuse to defend them i.e. against Islamic aggression.
Socon Or Bust: http://www.socon.ca/or_bust/

This triangle of truisms, of father, mother and child, cannot be destroyed; it can only destroy those civilizations which disregard it. - G. K. Chesterton (The Superstition of Divorce)
User avatar
Paycheck
 
Posts: 3071
Joined: 04/ 29/ 05 5:05 pm

Next

Return to General News

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 0 guests