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fourhorses
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 Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:04 pm Post subject: (CHRC) Killing the Hundreth Monkey |
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Killing the Hundreth Monkey
This is a CHRC issue, originating in Ottawa with respect to a web publisher in BC. The on-line news publisher is The Radical Press, author/editor - Arthur Topham.
Topan is a critic of what he refers to as a Zionist movement. He doesn't appear to be in the same leagues as the many so-called White Supremists, but more of a hard core critic and conspiracy theorist (as it seems to me)
The cause has been picked up by a few blogs as it was released today. Vive Le Canada is a left leaning BC journalist's blog, who gets his teeth into issues like a dog with a bone. Vive Le Canada seems to haave a solid following and is raising the public's consciousness of the claim.
The complaint was submitted by Harry Abrams and the League for Human Rights of B’nai Brith Canada and appears to be based that he and his website, are contriving to “promote ongoing hatred affecting persons identifiable as Jews and/or as citizens of Israel”.
The "citizens of Israel" addition to the complaint would seem to be a very big problem. That part of the complaint is simply censorship. Discussions of citizens of any country is fair game. We do it daily with the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the Turks, the Dutch, the British etc, etc.
Whether Topham has a beef or belief that there is a Zionist conspiracy to affect political events, is his problem. He should be able to present and defend his case. Likewise Abrams should be able to rebutt and present his position, if he so cares, or ignore the man.
This situation is no different than Mark Steyn and MacCleans.
What is particulary disturbing, more than the fact that a complaint is being lodged over this, is the manner in which it is being processed by the CHRC.
The CHRC investigator is:
Sandy Kozak sandy.kozak@chrc-ccdp.ca
Anti-Hate Team Investigator
Canadian Human Rights Commission
Investigations Branch
344 Slater Street,
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 1E1
Toll-free 1-888-214-1090
Fax (613) 947-7279
Website: http://www.chrc-ccdp.ca
File No: 2007 1016
Kozak answers Topham's email response requesting more detail:
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The investigation will examine whether there is support for the complainant’s allegation of hate on the internet by considering:
i. whether the material which forms the basis of the complaint was observed on the Internet;
ii. whether the communication of the material has at least partially taken place in Canada;
iii. whether the material is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt based on characteristic(s) based upon a prohibited ground(s)
iv. whether the Respondent communicated or caused to be communicated the material which forms the basis of the complaint.
What constitutes “hatred” is not defined in the Canadian Human Rights Act. It is a question of fact. It is generally accepted to refer to extreme ill-will and is an emotion which allows for “no redeeming qualities” in the person at whom it is directed. “Contempt” is similarly extreme and includes circumstances in which the object of one’s feelings is looked down upon, belittled, despised, dishonored or disgraced.
Sincerely,
Sandy Kozak
Investigator
Canadian Human Rights Commission
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What constitutes “hatred” is not defined in the Canadian Human Rights Act. It is a question of fact. It is generally accepted to refer to extreme ill-will and is an emotion which allows for “no redeeming qualities” in the person at whom it is directed. “Contempt” is similarly extreme and includes circumstances in which the object of one’s feelings is looked down upon, belittled, despised, dishonored or disgraced.
Topham replies in length, then provides his submitted answers to the CHRC.
| Quote: |
Post Script: Below please find my answers to the ten questions contained in your initial package of materials which I received on November 20th, 2007 as well as the bibliography of some of the books and articles which relate to this complaint and are used here as partial reference.
ANSWERS TO CHRC QUESTIONAIRE:
1. Do you own and/or control radicalpress.com? If not, do you know who own’s [sic] and/or controls this website?
Yes. I own and control radicalpress.com
2. What is the purpose of this website?
The Radical Press is a Sole Proprietorship business registered with the provincial government in Victoria, B.C. It was formed in 1998 when I began publishing a monthly alternative tabloid known as The Radical. The online version of this hard copy newspaper is known as Radicalpress.com . The purpose of the Radical Press and Radicalpress.com, like all news services, is to present to the general public news, information and opinions with which readers can better understand the world they are living in. The forum is provided, as is/was a Letters to the Editor page in The Radical, for public input, debate and feedback.
3. What is the intent of the information/documentation posted on this website?
See answer to Question #2.
4. Who is responsible for editing and/or posting the content of the information/documentation on this website?
I am.
5. How are the documents being posted on this website?
Documents are received from various writers on the net either via email or from their own websites or listserv or in hardcopy format or else written by myself and then republished on my site.
6. What is your relationship to radicalpress.com?
The Radical Press is my voice on the world wide web and the vehicle that I use to exercise my human right to freedom of the press and self-expression.
7. Who is the webmaster of this website?
I am the webmaster of radicalpress.com
8. Who is responsible for monitoring the forums on your website? What are your rules and regulations concerning the postings of messages on the forums? What is the criteria used to remove postings?
I am responsible for all aspects of monitoring the Radical Press forum. The rules and regulations are simple: no racist comments or articles are allowed. If this is discovered on the forum the post is removed and the poster is given a fair warning to not repeat their error. If they do they are deleted from the forum.
9. In reviewing your website, it would appear that radicalpress.com active [sic] links to organizations such as http://www.Stormfront.org . What is the purpose of making these links available and active?
Again, please see response to Question #2.
10. Who is your present Internet Service Provider (ISP)? Where is it located? Please provide a copy of the ISP’s arrangement. Please provide a copy of the agreement with ISP.
All information regarding my ISP, its location and whatever agreements I have with it, are of a private business nature no different than my bank account and credit card information and passwords, etc. No organization, including the CHRC, has a right to this information. I have committed no criminal act and therefore am entitled to retain my legal business rights.
I might add to this the fact that those responsible for making these false, slanderous and libelous accusations against my person and my website i.e. the B’nai Brith and their representative Harry Abrams, appear to have had no problem in locating my previous server and pressuring them to cancel my former agreement. I would therefore suggest that you ask Mr. Abrams and the B’nai Brith this question if you so desire such information.
“Also, please be advised that you are required to preserve any material related to this complaint, including information in electronic format, until the final disposition of the matter.”
This has not been possible in one case. When Mr. Abrams and the B’nai Brith or some other Zionist pressured my previous server into canceling my agreement with them I received a short notice on August 24, 2007 that the hosting service would cease as of August 31, 2007. This gave me very little time to arrange a database back up for the site and during that process that backup became corrupted. As a result I had to upload an earlier archived version when I resumed online publication on November 3, 2007 and that version didn’t contain the specific article which is included in the complaint. I’m referring here to the topic “The Protocols of the Learned Elders of Zion”. The url to the forum was still intact on the RadicalPress.com Home Page but the content had disappeared from off the forum itself and no link remained. I therefore removed the url from the Home Page of the site. The article exists on numerous other websites outside present-day Zionist Jew control. I have now reposted the article and it can be found at http://www.radicalpress.com/?page_id=601
It’s my contention concerning this matter that the site was purposely sabotaged by either the B’nai Brith or some other affiliated pro-Zionist person or organization.
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I find the demand for answers posed by the CHRC very troubling:
Question 3: What is the intent of the website -
What business is that of the CHRC?
Question 9: In reviewing your website, it would appear that radicalpress.com active [sic] links to organizations such as http://www.Stormfront.org . What is the purpose of making these links available and active?
Relevence? This would appear to be a pre-determination of guilt by some sort of association. If the CHRC has issue with that linked website, why haven't they gone after it. Have they decreed that that website is guilty without a trial or tribunal?
10. Who is your present Internet Service Provider (ISP)? Where is it located? Please provide a copy of the ISP’s arrangement. Please provide a copy of the agreement with ISP.
Relevence ? None of their bloody business.
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Full story posted at Vive Le Canada
http://www.vivelecanada.ca/article.php/20080103172731565
This CHRC crap is getting out of hand. |
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Fabulous Fred
Gender: Male
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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The CHRC's are VERY dangerous and they have been out of control for a very long time now. We are just becoming aware of their nefarious activities, so it is news to us, ... but it is old news.
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fourhorses
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Fabulous Fred wrote: | | but it is old news. |
old news ?
Apparently this claim came out on November 20th, 2007. It's first posting was today. That would be rather new or current. |
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Fabulous Fred
Gender: Male
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| fourhorses wrote: | | Fabulous Fred wrote: | | but it is old news. |
old news ?
Apparently this claim came out on November 20th, 2007. It's first posting was today. That would be rather new or current. |
The "old news" is the extreme threat the HRC's pose to our society. The case you illustrated (thanks for pointing it out) is merely one more in a long line of persecutions carried out by the thought police.
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 Connie FournierMember
Joined: 06 Jan 2001 Total posts: 22047 Location: Kingston, Ontario Age: 44 Gender: Female
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:27 pm Post subject: |
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I just got an email about this this morning and hadn't had the opportunity to post it.
The march continues.
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(The man Stephen Harper calls "the best of Canada") |
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fourhorses
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| "The Cult of Great Men" the pantheon of modern pretenders who have usurped God's place. |
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| TomFoolery Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Total posts: 5819
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| Posted: 01/ 04/ 08 11:03 pm Post subject: |
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From a Public Relations point of view, I'd suggest the B'nai B'rith are doing themselves (and/or their client group) a great disservice.
People are more apt to "tolerate and respect" when they do not see people or groups as threats to their basic constitutional liberties.
(However - if you have the Coercive Force of the State to back you up - I can see why they would simply declare WAR and try to shut down anything and everything they find objectionable.)
"Where Power lies, Influence shall bear" |
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Maikeru
Joined: 05 Nov 2004 Total posts: 4828 Location: Vancouver, British Columbia Gender: Male
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| Posted: 01/ 05/ 08 2:48 am Post subject: Re: (CHRC) Killing the Hundreth Monkey |
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| Quote: |
The complaint was submitted by Harry Abrams and the League for Human Rights of B’nai Brith Canada and appears to be based that he and his website, are contriving to “promote ongoing hatred affecting persons identifiable as Jews and/or as citizens of Israel”. |
1997 - a human rights complaint is lodged by Harry Abrams against North Shore News Columnist Doug Collins
" The North Shore News and I are the first anywhere in North America to be hauled before a human rights tribunal over the expression of an opinion. "
Practise makes perfect...
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"Let all the babies be born. Then let us drown those we do not like." - Chesterton - |
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ArthurTopham
Joined: 18 Dec 2007 Total posts: 54 Location: Cottonwood, British Columbia Age: 63 Gender: Male
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 4:47 am Post subject: Re: (CHRC) Killing the Hundreth Monkey |
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| fourhorses wrote: | Killing the Hundreth Monkey
This is a CHRC issue, originating in Ottawa with respect to a web publisher in BC. The on-line news publisher is The Radical Press, author/editor - Arthur Topham.
The complaint was submitted by Harry Abrams and the League for Human Rights of B’nai Brith Canada and appears to be based that he and his website, are contriving to “promote ongoing hatred affecting persons identifiable as Jews and/or as citizens of Israel”.
The "citizens of Israel" addition to the complaint would seem to be a very big problem. That part of the complaint is simply censorship. Discussions of citizens of any country is fair game. We do it daily with the Americans, the Russians, the Chinese, the Pakistanis, the Turks, the Dutch, the British etc, etc.
Whether Topham has a beef or belief that there is a Zionist conspiracy to affect political events, is his problem. He should be able to present and defend his case. Likewise Abrams should be able to rebutt and present his position, if he so cares, or ignore the man.
This situation is no different than Mark Steyn and MacLeans.
What is particulary disturbing, more than the fact that a complaint is being lodged over this, is the manner in which it is being processed by the CHRC.
iii. whether the material is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt based on characteristic(s) based upon a prohibited ground(s)
This CHRC crap is getting out of hand. |
Hello fourhorses. Thanks for posting the short critique of my article/document. It is an issue that definitely requires redress soon. I just heard today that Vancouver's Coop Radio and one of their participating groups Voice for Palestine were recently given notice by the CRTC that they must appear before a hearing to justify their existence also. Apparently someone "complained" that they were being unfair to Israel in their criticisms of that nation's policy of ethnic cleansing. They stand to lose their license to broadcast if they can't convince the CRTC. One complaint out of 35 million and you are up before the Tribunal.
I must admit I too was rather surprised by Abram's insertion of the "citizens of Israel" in his complaint but not because he wouldn't have reasons for doing so. As my "Response" explains in quite clear terms those who support the Israeli government's policies are pro-Zionist simply because Zionism is the ideological basis for the state. Being a Zionist himself he must do whatever he can to silence critics of his homeland. Who wants the people of Canada to realize that in Israel you have an apartheid system where Jewish citizens have full rights and non-Jewish citizens have a marked degree of lesser rights in a number of crucial areas of civil life. But, like you say, placing that in the complaint seems rather futile but only because most Canadians aren't aware of the backroom dealings that are going on which may suddenly surprise many when lo and behold all of a sudden it IS considered to be "anti-Semitic" and "hateful" to say anything about citizens of Israel. Of course what Abrams really means is "Jewish" citizens of Israel. Not the Arab citizens or anyone else who the state hasn't deemed to be Jewish.
| Quote: | | iii. whether the material is likely to expose a person or persons to hatred or contempt based on characteristic(s) based upon a prohibited ground(s) |
This particular section of Ms. Kozak's explanation to me is of interest. The groundwork was all in place when the government, with the help of the B'nai Brith and the CJC, changed the "Interpretation" of Sec. 13(1) of the Canadian Human Rights Act when they brought in the new Anti-Terrorism Act in the fall of 2001. It was then that it became law (of sorts) that a complainant could go after someone using the net to cry "hatred" if they criticized what the pro-Zionist Jews felt endangered their position. Now of course when the CHRC says that grounds are determined by the mere fact that something exists on the net and it is not negotiable whether it is true or not but merely because it is there and someone doesn't like what's been said, then you have a Catch-22 situation for the person who is victim of the complaint. It might also explain why not a single case has ever been won by any respondents (victims).
It's a major can of worms and one needn't be a "conspiracy theorist" to realize that such legislation is an open invitation to abuse by minorities, especially the minorities in question who were instrumental in writing the act and amending it.
Now, of course, we have Mr. Zionist himself, former Attorney General Irwin Cotler, rewriting the concept of what anti-Semitism is and laying the groundwork for some more creative ways of stemming the tide of criticism aimed at his homeland out east. He calls it the "New Anti-Semitism". Keep your eyes open.
My apologies for going on. In all fairness one ought to read the whole response for it touches on a number of issue that are factual in nature and for the most part completely unknown here in Canada. |
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fourhorses
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Hello ArthurTopham
Free speech is a concern for all Canadians. Whether or not I agree with your dissertations on Israel's politics and policies and whether or not there is a Zionist conspiracy is not the point. I believe that you, me and all Canadians should be able to speak our minds, formulate our opinions and debate issues we feel relevant to public interest.
Your issue is an anchor on but one corner. Similar cards have been played against the Ron Grey - Christian Heritage Party, Catholic Insight Magazine, Jessica Beaumont Ezra Levant-Western Standard, Marc Lemire - Freedom Site, Jessica Beaumont, etc.
I as well as many other, do not necessarily agree with all or any of the positions taken by any one of these defendants, however, their right to have and express those opinions is paramount. Your situation showcases the reach and the level of absurdity that this political correctness affecting our country has attained.
If you have the opportunity, scroll to Dough-on-the-Right-Side thread re: Connie Fournier. Doug and Connie do a good job of bringing this closer to public scrutiny. Many of the posters who frequent this forum have debated these issues at length, including the activities of some off the perpetrators of the claims. That debate resulted in a libel suit against the forum admins and several of the posters as one of the individuals, R Warman, took exception to being discussed and debated. That will be adjudicated in a civil court. Read through somee of the older threads and see the debate, discusssions and thought processes.
These tribunals have become kangaroo courts and this country is headed towards a banana republic justice system. There are many factions playing this avenue to silence critics. It is both a far left and far right mentality, each vying for control of the electronic thought and communication process.
We either have the right to free speech and free press or the right not to be offended.
We can't have both, choose one. |
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CdnRepublican
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Total posts: 9279 Location: Jerusalem, beating back the hordes of the anti-christ. Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| fourhorses wrote: | Hello ArthurTopham
Free speech is a concern for all Canadians. Whether or not I agree with your dissertations on Israel's politics and policies and whether or not there is a Zionist conspiracy is not the point. I believe that you, me and all Canadians should be able to speak our minds, formulate our opinions and debate issues we feel relevant to public interest.
Your issue is an anchor on but one corner. Similar cards have been played against the Ron Grey - Christian Heritage Party, Catholic Insight Magazine, Jessica Beaumont Ezra Levant-Western Standard, Marc Lemire - Freedom Site, Jessica Beaumont, etc.
I as well as many other, do not necessarily agree with all or any of the positions taken by any one of these defendants, however, their right to have and express those opinions is paramount. Your situation showcases the reach and the level of absurdity that this political correctness affecting our country has attained.
If you have the opportunity, scroll to Dough-on-the-Right-Side thread re: Connie Fournier. Doug and Connie do a good job of bringing this closer to public scrutiny. Many of the posters who frequent this forum have debated these issues at length, including the activities of some off the perpetrators of the claims. That debate resulted in a libel suit against the forum admins and several of the posters as one of the individuals, R Warman, took exception to being discussed and debated. That will be adjudicated in a civil court. Read through somee of the older threads and see the debate, discusssions and thought processes.
These tribunals have become kangaroo courts and this country is headed towards a banana republic justice system. There are many factions playing this avenue to silence critics. It is both a far left and far right mentality, each vying for control of the electronic thought and communication process.
We either have the right to free speech and free press or the right not to be offended.
We can't have both, choose one. |
Ezra Levant is hardly a radical. It is a pity that the W-S is out of business. The W-S was the only mag worth reading. Its website still posts good material.
While we should not support anti-semiticism, this other chap has a right to voice his rather distorted and ridiculous opinion. If you disagree - post why he is wrong and argue with him.
What sites should do, is move their servers and site content offshore. If the content is not in Canada, you can't be tried under Cdn law. This is true for FD as well. The mindlessness of the HRCs is overwhelming, so move the content out of their reach.
Caymans, Turks, Barbados, Belize, Panama etc. offer secrecy and hosting. |
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Edward Kennedy
Joined: 14 Apr 2005 Total posts: 15848 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 8:44 am Post subject: |
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The incessant attacks on freedom of expression from SPECIFIC sources make one inclined to despise these people/organizations and in essence, such publicity contributes to hatred from the casual onlooker towards the attackers of free speech. JDL, Warman, CHRC, and Bnai Brith TAKE NOTE. I am not the only one who is affected such, I know of people who have actually been driven by these anti freedom tyrrants to THE OTHER SIDE. AND I MEAN THE OTHER RADICAL SIDE.
Bottm line, whiners and censors LOOSE BIG TIME. And I mean BIG TIME. |
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| solix Joined: 22 Nov 2007 Total posts: 3 Gender: Unknown
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| CdnRepublican wrote: |
What sites should do, is move their servers and site content offshore. If the content is not in Canada, you can't be tried under Cdn law. This is true for FD as well. The mindlessness of the HRCs is overwhelming, so move the content out of their reach.
Caymans, Turks, Barbados, Belize, Panama etc. offer secrecy and hosting. |
How canadian. Let's just run away. If even FD members won't stand up to the HRC then this country is really a lost cause. |
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| TomFoolery Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Total posts: 5819
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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There are defensive measures and offensive measures.
Shoring up once defense is the best short term strategy for long-term sustainability.
What have YOU done lately ? |
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Fabulous Fred
Gender: Male
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| Posted: 01/ 06/ 08 4:41 pm Post subject: |
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| backwoods wrote: | The incessant attacks on freedom of expression from SPECIFIC sources make one inclined to despise these people/organizations and in essence, such publicity contributes to hatred from the casual onlooker towards the attackers of free speech. JDL, Warman, CHRC, and Bnai Brith TAKE NOTE. I am not the only one who is affected such, I know of people who have actually been driven by these anti freedom tyrrants to THE OTHER SIDE. AND I MEAN THE OTHER RADICAL SIDE.
Bottm line, whiners and censors LOOSE BIG TIME. And I mean BIG TIME. |
You make a valid point. That has most certainly occurred to me as well. Groups who want to take away free speech in Canada will quickly become my enemies.
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