Canada's "Hate Law" Victim Arthur Topham

[free_life2]

"roundup the usual suspects ...and we will figure out what they are guilty of later............!"

[Maikeru]

Warmans twin, separated at birth?

'Insider trading' comes to mind...

[fourhorses]

"roundup the usual suspects ...and we will figure out what they are guilty of later............!"

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free."
von Goethe

[fourhorses]

On another FD thread, there is a posting called "And the penny drops..."
viewtopic.php?f=70&t=119195&start=510

Poster, Maikeru gives us a glimpse of CHRT transcripts relating to Det Wilson's obtaining a suspect citizen's computer hard drive and passing along a mirrored CD copy to inquiring minds at CHRC, who are investigating the same citizen pursuant to a complaint lodged by someone who works for them (or works for them afterwards) and who subsequently is given a copy of the CD under the heading of CHRC Disclosure Procedures.


So what are CHRC Disclosure Procedures?

So they "disclose" what they have to both complainant and respondent.
But what do they have, how do they obtain it and why do they obtain these various materials?

These are important questions.
They go to the concept of:
Close their doors
Open their files
Prosecute the unlawful activities


With the third reading of the private member bill to can s13, it seems that the country is willing to sweep all these events under the carpet and pat one another on the back for a job well done. Is it though?


There has been such an abuse of process, such an array of unlawful and unscrupulous activities. Can we afford to turn our heads, wash our hands?

So what happens with the computer and info from the Topham case? As their is a CHRC case "pending", does that hard drive get mirrored on a CD and forwarded to Roo HQ? Is a copy provided to the complainants under the "CHRC Disclosure Procedures" ?

How about in this alleged criminal hate crime, does the hard drive get copied and sent to the complainants? If we look back at Maikeru's posting, the criminal charges leveled at the two citizens were dropped but the hard drive info was forwarded to Roo HQ and subsequently on to the complainant?





Does anyone out there care what the police and government do - what tactics they use, what civil liberties they abuse?


Why does everything to do with CHRC investigations (section 13) seem to be some sort of a daisy chain?

[Maikeru]

Another 'Blast from the Past"
The Haunted Bunker - Doug Collins final case
Back in 1997/98/99, Journalist Doug Collins was dragged through 2 separate and consecutive BCHRTribunal Hearings. The first Complaint heard was a CJC v. Collins/NSNews, and the Tribunal did not uphold the Complaint.

The second was was Harry Abrams v. Collins/NSNews, and the Tribunal upheld the Complaint.
BC's then Attorney General Ujjal Dosangh was an intervenor in the Abrams v. Collins/NSN Hearing.

The Abrams Complaint was heard by BCHRTribunal member Tom W. Patch.
Collins did not attend the second Hearing, other than to have his lawyer indicate that Collins intended to challenge the Constitutional validity of the Hearing(s).

In his 'Reasons for Decision', BCHRTribunal member Tom W. Patch stated:

[100] As I noted in the introduction to these reasons, issues related to the constitutional validity of the Code
were severed from the issues that I have decided in these reasons. I reserve the right to hear and decide those constitutional issues.

Lawyer Doug Christie acted for Doug Collins in his challenge of the BCHRT/Patch Decision, during the period Collins approached the BCSupreme Court and was told to return to the BCHRT, for their guidance in the matter, before turning to the Court for redress.

Collins died before that event, but Mr. Christie carried on, on behalf of Collins estate.

It is relevant at this time due to the recent arrest of Arthur Topham, purportedly for violation of CC319, which followed on the heels of a CHRC Complaint, also by Harry Abrams, which was suspended following the Lemire Hearing, and now permanently discontinued due to the repeal of Sec 13.1.

Mr. Abrams is rumoured to be involved in complaints which led to Topham's arrest, the police raid of Topham's home, and the seizure of his belongings, which would have required the compliance of the Attorney General's office to execute if the charge is criminal hate-speech related.

Doug Christie, who acted for Mr. Collins, is also rumoured to be acting for Arthur Topham.

The following article addresses the outcome of the BCHRT/Patch Hearing on the matter of the 'Constitutional validity of the Code', and indicates the degree to which Mr. Abrams dignity and feelings of self respect were injured as a result of columns penned by Doug Collins.

December 21, 2001
Doug Collins' final case
Dead writer is still the subject of a human rights decision.

He haunts us still. Months after the death of former North Shore News columnist Doug Collins, the B.C. Human Rights Tribunal has ruled that a 1998 [B.C. Human Rights Tribunal] decision against Collins and his newspaper did not contravene the [BC]Human Rights Code.

Collins, with his lawyer Doug Christie, had claimed that the Human Rights Tribunal exceeded the law when it ordered him to pay $2,000 in damages to Harry Abrams, a Victoria resident, for "injury to his dignity, feelings and self-respect." The North Shore News was also ordered to publish a summary of the tribunal's decision and cease publishing statements that expose Jewish persons "to hatred and contempt."

Christie, on behalf of Collins, maintained that the decision was "not a reasonable limit prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society...." Human Rights Tribunal member Tom Patch considered the issue, reviewing the relevant aspects of the original case and came to the conclusion that the earlier tribunal decision did not violate the limits to free speech permitted under Canadian law and judicial precedents.

The position of Collins (and, after his death, the Collins estate) was that section 7(1)(b) of the B.C. Human Rights Code contravened provisions of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms. Patch pointed out that section 1 of the Charter recognizes the validity of justifiably limiting human rights and stated that the B.C. Human Rights Code is an example of that justification.

Nisson Goldman, a lawyer and chair of Canadian Jewish Congress, Pacific Region, said the decision reflects Canadian legal precedents, which recognize that certain types of speech are not legally permissible, specifically if they are seen to cause public harm.

"This country is different than the American concept," he said. Goldman acknowledged that this decision could be appealed to a higher court, even conceivably reaching the Supreme Court of Canada, but he doubted the matter would be taken much farther.

"I think this Collins chapter is now closed," he said. Abrams, who initiated the complaint, told the Bulletin that he has been vindicated.

"It's a decision that upholds a system and essential human rights mechanism of remedy and redress for people and groups who have been defamed for basic characteristics about themselves that they cannot change, such as ethnicity, gender or degree of disability, this time involving hate in public media," he said.

"There is a distinction that deserves to be made, to media managers, journalists, editors and publishers, that there are marked distinctions between hate propaganda and reasonable discourse. Also, what we've reaffirmed, is that there's a backstop available for media that refuse to govern themselves according the most basic ethics of journalism."

The fact that his opponent was dead when the decision came down has little practical effect on the issue at hand, said Abrams. But he had harsh words for the legacy Collins left.

"One less hate-monger in the world is always an improvement," said Abrams.

For those who viewed Collins as a hero of free speech, Abrams suggested a tribute: "Let them name a bunker after him!"

Abrams, who has been critical of Canadian Jewish Congress for being too bureaucratic, said his success at bringing Collins before the tribunal is an example of what an individual citizen can do.

Like Goldman, however, Abrams acknowledged that the other side could appeal to a higher judicial body; but Abrams was defiant.

"It's still possible that Christie will try," said Abrams. "But let him try. We're ready."

[Narrow Back]

Re: Harry Abrams. I think this says it all:

And Ed, if I was going to lie to you....it had better be at least profitable in some way.

by Harry Abrams » 08/ 23/ 09 12:23 am
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=105

[Red Green]

Re: Harry Abrams. I think this says it all:

And Ed, if I was going to lie to you....it had better be at least profitable in some way.

by Harry Abrams » 08/ 23/ 09 12:23 am
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=105

Is he still a member of did he get banned?

[Narrow Back]

Re: Harry Abrams. I think this says it all:

And Ed, if I was going to lie to you....it had better be at least profitable in some way.

by Harry Abrams » 08/ 23/ 09 12:23 am
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=105

Is he still a member of did he get banned?

He was banned. From what I remember there was an issue of altered documents. Something like that. I don't have the details. He occasionally posts on ARC. If you Google "anti racist canada harry abrams" you can get an idea of what he's up to these days.

[Red Green]

Re: Harry Abrams. I think this says it all:

And Ed, if I was going to lie to you....it had better be at least profitable in some way.

by Harry Abrams » 08/ 23/ 09 12:23 am
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewt ... &start=105

Is he still a member of did he get banned?

He was banned. From what I remember there was an issue of altered documents. Something like that. I don't have the details. He occasionally posts on ARC. If you Google "anti racist canada harry abrams" you can get an idea of what he's up to these days.

No, really I could care less. Good riddance.

[fourhorses]

S 13 removal went through third reading last night and passed 153 to 136 - now on to the senate

Topham was one of the last victims to be caught up in the twilight zone of s13 and I suspect that once Storseth's Bill receives Royal Ascent, the torture wheels at Roo Central will slowly (ever so slowly) begin to grind out the necessary paperwork to bury the Abrams/BB v Topham case, so that the general public never sees what really was transpiring.


The 319 (2) criminal charge raises a whole lot of questions - raises more questions than it answers

[Maikeru]

Re: Harry Abrams. I think this says it all:

And Ed [Kennedy], if I was going to lie to you....it had better be at least profitable in some way.

That quote was in reference to a discussion of the word 'goy[im]'.
I believe Harry meant by that sentence that he had no motive for lying, rather than that lying was profitable. Harry was/is not the most articulate of people, but then neither was GW Bush...

Is he Harry Abrams] still a member of did he get banned?

He was banned. From what I remember there was an issue of altered documents. Something like that. I don't have the details.

Harry posted an article on FreeDominion which he ascribed to Marc Lemire as the souce of the content through adding the line 'by Marc Lemire'.
The purpose in doing so was to bolster his claim that Marc Lemire led the 'Heritage Front' organization.
Mark Fournier checked with Marc Lemire, who admitted posting the article, but not writing it, and banned Harry for that indiscretion.

He occasionally posts on ARC. If you Google "anti racist canada harry abrams" you can get an idea of what he's up to these days.

Harry has left comments following 'Anti-Racist Canada' threads, and is obviously charmed by the spirit and intent of that site.
It's unclear, though, whether Harry has the coveted 'password' to post to the 'ARCCollective' as 'Nxxxxxxxx200', but Harry is also known to make the odd racist remark , so 'likely' not.

[Maikeru]

Another 'Blast from the Past':
Free Dominion - battleground in Abrams v Topham case