US Healthcare

[impimp]

The US system costs more than the Canadian system for the same reason that health care in Canada is more expensive than health care in rural sub-saharan Africa. The US offers services that Canada does not, just as Canada offers services that Africa is not. Because of the element of expanded consumer choice in the US, US health care will ALWAYS be more expensive per capita than Canada's socialized health care.

And I forgot to add, if it was not obvious, that the American system is much better than the Canadian system. I know from experience since I live in the land of liberty, having left the land of Marxism.

[maxjones0]

Our town just built (with borrowed money) a $15 million new city hall.

Now I know government money does not all come from the same place, regardless, it seems incredibly lame that for the past 2 years the citizens have been holding fund raisers so that we can raise $1.5 to buy a CT Scanner for our hospital and to fund its operation.

I do not know why it is do hard to come up with the money? And it is all so that nobody has to pay.

I would be glad to pay rather than wait 3 months for a scan! And I would gladly donate to help pay for people who cannot afford it. But to have people suffer while on a waiting list is BS. If you need the machine, just go buy it!!!

Sorry for my rant. Dear American's, you do not know who bad the service is up here.

[maxjones0]

Salmon Arm, BC

[Faramir]

John Stossle has done a couple 20/20s on this and they are well worth watching.

There are now some doctors that provide direct service to the uninsured - they refuse to deal with insurers. Because of this they are able to provide services at 50% or better of what a doctor working with HMOs does. They are dealing with those who fall through the cracks and don't have or choose not to buy insurance.

One thing to keep in mind, there is always this statistic thrown around about 30 - 40 million uninsured Americans. A good deal of them CHOOSE not to purchase insurance, and many of them are "in transit" between jobs.

Indeed one of the glaring weaknesses in the US system is that healthcare coverage is linked to employment - what happens if you decide to become self-employed or move jobs?

[LAR]

Our town of Salmon Arm just built (with borrowed money) a $15 million new city hall.

Now I know government money does not all come from the same place, regardless, it seems incredibly lame that for the past 2 years the citizens have been holding fund raisers so that we can raise $1.5 to buy a CT Scanner for our hospital and to fund its operation.

I do not know why it is do hard to come up with the money? And it is all so that nobody has to pay.

I would be glad to pay rather than wait 3 months for a scan! And I would gladly donate to help pay for people who cannot afford it. But to have people suffer while on a waiting list is BS. If you need the machine, just go buy it!!!

Sorry for my rant. Dear American's, you do not know who bad the service is up here.

So what's stopping an entrepreneur from buying a CT scanner and billing the medical plan for service to patients, like our family doctors and specialists do?

[maxjones0]

It is not allowed. It is not in the budget. There is no one to bill.

And it is not considered proper (or legal in some cases) to offer services for a fee when patients without money must wait inline. It is better is we all wait together, they say.

When Vernon, BC got their CT Scanner, it only operated for 60% of the time in the beginning, even with people waiting for months, because they only budgeted enough for that level of service.

[LAR]

It is not allowed. It is not in the budget. There is no one to bill.

And it is not considered proper (or legal in some cases) to offer services for a fee when patients without money must wait inline. It is better is we all wait together, they say.

When Vernon, BC got their CT Scanner, it only operated for 60% of the time in the beginning, even with people waiting for months, because they only budgeted enough for that level of service.

It is already being done in BC, so it is allowed. Your doctor refers you for a CT scan the government doesn't have to provide the service. Just the funding for the service. I think people get confused between public or private insurance and public or private facilities.
Most doctors are private for profit. They get paid by the medical insurance which in our case is public.
Except for the amount of subsidization it's much the same as BC's auto insurance complete with optional Blue Cross if you want to pay for some extra coverage.

[maxjones0]

I understand LAR. It does seem silly though, to have customers (i.e. patients) waiting for months for a medically necessary test all because they do not have the budget to buy the equipment. My local car dealerships buys the equipment it needs and charges me more if it has to. Our system is backwards in so many ways. Maybe Dr Day, the new head of the CMA will help change the system to a more market oriented approach.

[WestViking]

I understand LAR. It does seem silly though, to have customers (i.e. patients) waiting for months for a medically necessary test all because they do not have the budget to buy the equipment. My local car dealerships buys the equipment it needs and charges me more if it has to. Our system is backwards in so many ways. Maybe Dr Day, the new head of the CMA will help change the system to a more market oriented approach.

The delays are intentional. It is a bureacratic method of controlling health care costs.

[LAR]

I understand LAR. It does seem silly though, to have customers (i.e. patients) waiting for months for a medically necessary test all because they do not have the budget to buy the equipment. My local car dealerships buys the equipment it needs and charges me more if it has to. Our system is backwards in so many ways. Maybe Dr Day, the new head of the CMA will help change the system to a more market oriented approach.

Absolutely. Waits are a problem that need to be dealt with. I'm not defending the system. We could really learn from some other systems that work better than ours. Someone mentioned France. I like what I've read about how the Swiss handle things. It's more of a public/private partnership but still includes everybody.

[maxjones0]

A waiting list is an opportunity to make some money off of the customer you are servicing. I wished I had a line up for my product I sell! I want my medical plan to make a profit so that it can buy more equipment, give its workers a raise and ultimately help more people. I hear that we should start to move more towards funding based on the number of procedures hospitals do rather than a flat amount that they must make do with for the year. My Ten Principles of the Canadian health Act is my way of trying to change public opinion. #6-10 should be written so that they trump the stupids parts of the first 5.

1. Public Administration
2. Comprehensiveness
3. Universality
4. Portability
5. Accessibility

6. Life is Invaluable There should be no limits on the amount spent on health care because life is invaluable. Government resources are not infinite and people spend better than governments do anyways, so people should spend more.

7. Waiting Lists are Immoral Access delayed is access denied. Every Canadian has the right to seek timely care and has the right to pay for it.

8. A Patient is a Customer The patient is more accurately called a customer. Customers demand service. Private industry is a better provider of service than government is. Therefore, more private business involvement in health care is needed.

9. Medical Education for All All people should be encouraged to enter the health care profession as it is the most marvelous thing of our times and is a moral and giving/helping profession. As such, there should be no restrictions on the number of doctors, nurses etc. allowed to graduate. Our school systems should focus their instructional examples on health related topics and students should work towards acquiring their Industrial First Aid certification (or some similar type of first aid ticket). Good for the individual, future employers, family, and society as a whole.

10. Laws of Economics Rule Health care systems should not try to reverse the laws of economics by invoking moral exceptions. E.g. Monopolies are expensive and inefficient, by definition and by empirical evidence, so competition should always be encouraged in the medical services sector.

I am sure my idea needs work, but public opinion on this subject is so wrong that we ways to help them embrace a better way. My wife is crippled due to waiting for a CT scan and all that followed afterwards.

[leewgrant]

And I forgot to add, if it was not obvious, that the American system is much better than the Canadian system. I know from experience since I live in the land of liberty, having left the land of Marxism.

The US spends a higher percentage of its GDP on health care than Canada. That's one of the problems with state run medicare - the decisions to fund it are not based not on what is required for the health of the people but on political decisions.

As a result of spending more money the US, proportionality, has more doctors, more equipment and better facilities. Private insurance does have features like deductibles and co-pay and other restrictions put on by HMOs. As a result if your bill is $5000 and your co-pay is 20% you pay $1000 of that. For some this is a burden, for others the price you pay for better health care.

[bluecon]

There is no control on the health care system by way of supply and demand.

If everyone had hotel insurance and had a hotel card and could use any hotel room at no charge to themselves what do you think a hotel room would cost?

[leewgrant]

There is no control on the health care system by way of supply and demand.

If everyone had hotel insurance and had a hotel card and could use any hotel room at no charge to themselves what do you think a hotel room would cost?

That's why in Canada it is not "insurance", it's just another government payout. As soon as anyone suggests running Canadian medicare in accordance with insurance principles the left go berserk. .

[leewgrant]

is it?

Yes, it is. Just look at any research on the issue.

But, perhaps I should rephrase my question so as to avoid replies like the above.

Why do so many people in the US not have health care?

<P>I will assume you are basing that question on the "44 million" ( it varies, but that's average ) figure widely used by politicians and their symbiotes in the Media- it is as fraudulent as a three dollar bill:<P><a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1888885/posts"><b>Media Still Using Wrong Number for Uninsured</b></a><P>
<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1888637/posts"><b>The '47 Million Uninsured' Myth</b></a><P>
<a href="http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1887917/posts"><b>Record Number of Americans Lack Health Insurance </b></a>
<BR><I>Of the 47 million, 13 million are eligible for some form of government assistance but haven't taken the time to apply, 11 million make over $60,000 annually and could afford it but haven't bought insurance and 15 million are illegals. (Source Blue Cross and Blue Shield Association, 2004.)</i>

Actally, I've some on-line articles over the past couple of months which state the US spends almost $6k/year on healthcare.
But these numbers of yours are very revealing. I never knew they counted illegals in that total. Nor of the 13 million or the other 11 million. Very interesting.

When people argue that life expectancy is longer in Canada, and infant mortality rate is lower than that of the U.S. I wonder if it's the illegals that are causing the difference?