Should Canada Pension Plan Participation Be Voluntary?

[Faramir]

Calling it a pension plan is a misnomer. Why? Really it is welfare for retirees. The average monthly payment is $750, with the top range around $900, the minimum just under $300.

Yes, it is tied to lifetime earnings, but very loosely. For example someone who worked on day and made ONE contribution will still get the minimum, which is under $300. Another person can contribute for 35 years at $100,000 a year and all they get is $900.

On top of that low income couple then get supplements to the CPP.

The elderly are a powerful lobby group. They may "appear" weak and helpless - and by God they love the be thought of that way - but they have huge political clout. For instance the AARP made sure social security reform would not happen.

In Canada, when the CPP was not funded, the sensible thing would have been to cut benefits. But the mad grannies made sure that they keep their entitlement and working families have to pay more into the plan - to get the same at the end. In essence we are subsidizing the elderly on this plan.

[Faramir]

A pyramid scheme is exactly what social security is in the US - at least CPP is now funded.

Actually the SS website is a little more honest. In answer to question "Will they money be there for me", they do answer yes, BUT they also say that adjustments may need to be made to make sure it is sustainable, such as increasing the age one can benefit. Well, increasing the drawing age is the same thing as a benefit cut!

In a small Congressional session in the 1980s, when no one was paying attention, the US did raise the age from 65 to 67. What the hell are those at 65 suppose to do when they retire!?

[Adonick]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

[Manganic]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

[Red Green]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

I am guessing you had all your retirement in Enron then

[Rob E]

Yes Yes Yes... I can not say that too many times. People can save money better on their own. Plus if they get into problems there are many to get help and if still want the government to spoon feed you then you can do that too.

[Adonick]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

Because I do not believe the poorer Canadians can afford to save for retirement, and it serves as a basic safety net for the elderly, whom, in my opinion, deserve to be taken care of for their years of hard work.

Take for example a lifelong retail employee. I highly doubt that they can afford a fancy retirement package - and they do one of the most thankless jobs.

I am very pro-market, but it can't solve everything. Sometimes a touch of compassion is necessary in the right places.

[Clinton P. Desveaux]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

Because I do not believe the average Canadian can afford to save for retirement, and it serves as a basic safety net for the elderly, whom, in my opinion, deserve to be taken care of for their years of hard work.

Take for example a lifelong retail employee. I highly doubt that they can afford a fancy retirement package - and they do one of the most thankless jobs.

I am very pro-market, but it can't solve everything. Sometimes a touch of compassion is necessary in the right places.

But most people own homes, get jobs, and buy food, so why would they not be able to plan for retirement? You take a rather shallow view of individuals.

[Adonick]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

Because I do not believe the average Canadian can afford to save for retirement, and it serves as a basic safety net for the elderly, whom, in my opinion, deserve to be taken care of for their years of hard work.

Take for example a lifelong retail employee. I highly doubt that they can afford a fancy retirement package - and they do one of the most thankless jobs.

I am very pro-market, but it can't solve everything. Sometimes a touch of compassion is necessary in the right places.

But most people own homes, get jobs, and buy food, so why would they not be able to plan for retirement? You take a rather shallow view of individuals.

A large segment of society mortgages their home, both work, buy food, and still live from paycheque to paycheque. I would suggest that most people would struggle to put together any reasonable amount of money towards a retirement plan that may last two decades. If you don't believe that's the case, I feel you live a world of books rather than dealing with the average person.

[Adonick]

So individuals whom work in the retail sector, or food service, or any number of low-paying jobs do not deserve to be able to comfortably retire after "getting a job" for 50 years? Just because they didn't become doctors or lawyers with six figure salaries does not mean they do not deserve a comfortable old age.

[Clinton P. Desveaux]

Surprisingly, I too believe that CPP should be mandatory.

Yes; that does indeed surprise me.

Care to tell us why you would support such a tyrannical concept?

Because I do not believe the average Canadian can afford to save for retirement, and it serves as a basic safety net for the elderly, whom, in my opinion, deserve to be taken care of for their years of hard work.

Take for example a lifelong retail employee. I highly doubt that they can afford a fancy retirement package - and they do one of the most thankless jobs.

I am very pro-market, but it can't solve everything. Sometimes a touch of compassion is necessary in the right places.

But most people own homes, get jobs, and buy food, so why would they not be able to plan for retirement? You take a rather shallow view of individuals.

A large segment of society mortgages their home, both work, buy food, and still live from paycheque to paycheque. I would suggest that most people would struggle to put together any reasonable amount of money towards a retirement plan that may last two decades. If you don't believe that's the case, I feel you live a world of books rather than dealing with the average person.

Stange, I have children, own a home, and work, and oddly enough if I could keep my CPP contributions I would have more money for savings with better returns.

[RedDog]

These questions and topics are interesting as they expose true culture of entitlement views across the landscape.

My pension intentions are none of anybody else's business, just as their's is none of mine. The whole affair is no place for any government. I note in life in general that when government IS involved, I tend to do a lot more paying than receiving - and a lot of people in Canada have been virtually bred from birth to defend receiving with a perfectly straight face.

[dwday]

I voted voluntary, but I understand Adonick's concerns.

I think most of us understand that reforms of this nature would have to happen in a larger context of reducing dependence on government & transitioning to a more self-reliant citizenry in general. I've done a fair bit of financial counceling over the years, and it's been my observation that most working people who say they can't provide for retirement are living beyond their present means & are unwilling to make tradeoffs. The attitude that they have a 'right' to a certain standard of living springs directly from reliance on government. Get rid of that that, and people will pay more attention to their financial health.

[HeywoodFloyd]

Stange, I have children, own a home, and work, and oddly enough if I could keep my CPP contributions I would have more money for savings with better returns.

The most you could have paid into the CPP in 2006 was about $1910. Thats because there is a contribution ceiling.

I spend more than that on beer.

[RedDog]

Why is there a "contribution ceiling" under this lowest common denominator nanny structure? What business of government is it how much I choose to put away for the future?