Harper government wimps out in free speech fight

[civic.duty]

What alternatives do Canadian Social Conservatives Have? It is understandable that many (both individuals and parties) should think that in Canada social conservatives have no alternatives. After all, the only political party which has any possibilities for us and that seems likely to elect any members, it may be thought, is the Conservative Party of Canada. What happens if Conservative Party fails to move forward with socially conservative measures?

For some, the answer is to vote for the Christian Heritage Party, which, though it has not elected any members, stands for the basic socially conservative principles. Others feel that a protest vote for the CHP is not the answer; that they must support a party which has a chance of electing members and is a viable possibility for governing the country. Such Canadians are not without alternatives. It is possible to respond to appeals from the national party headquarters by giving nothing and directing all party giving to the local constituency association. Such giving is fully deductible. (It's a good idea to tell national party headquarters why you are denying them a donation.) Furthermore, if the local candidate is not supporting socially conservative principles it is possible to give to a constituency association other than the one established for one's own area. Such a donation is still deductibe for tax purposes.
www.socialconservatives.ca

Ted, this proposal still benefits the CPC and their obvious plan to eject any true conservative from their ranks. Let me be clear, that the CPC is not a conservative party but a socially progressive party which in my mind is even more dangerous to the country than a liberal party.

The same holds for the provincial so labelled conservative parties.

The only alternative available is to re-focus your conservative efforts at the municipal levels and work to re-establish conservative principles at that level. The necklace of successful civic parties can then be woven together to contest higher level elections with individuals with proven conservative track records and with established base of support and volunteers.

[Coyote_Ugly]

I could only find an indirect link to the quote. Ironically, it has most frequently been used by the left to suggest that Harper doesn't adequately support human rights.

And that is EXACTLY why the CPC doesn't want to take on this fight right now. They have the pick their battles with care and I would not take the memo as an indication that they actually support HRC's as they currently exist. In the current circumstance their best move would be to appoint people to these HRC's that have a lick of common sense.

I think we are headed to an election soon, and this is going to be a very different election than before. Last time the media didn't like Martin, they were sickened by the Liberal corruption too so the coverage was a little more balanced. Not so this time. They see the Liberals as pure as the driven snow, Harper as a mean bully (to them and Dion), and Dion as the scrawny kid getting sand kicked in his face. The media will be all-out for Dion and Harper has to be very careful to not give them a stick to beat him with.

Yes, the issue is one that can be easily debated and won on the merits, but that is not how most people decide issues in an election, if it was Reform would have formed the government long ago. Election cycles are too short to really go over an issue in the depth it deserves (unlike in the USA) The media tells them how to think and they follow that. For all the inroads the new media has made, the MSM still has a LOT of power over how people think. That is how McCain came out on top too.

And before any of you swear off voting CPC again, who do you think would be better? Honestly. Do you really think Dion is going to dismantle HRC's? Layton? Duceppe? May? No. None of them will. Punishing the CPC just because they exercise the better part of valor is foolhardy.

The job of convincing the public to change these HRC's is up to us, not Harper. When we have the public convinced they need to be changed, we will get a government that will change them.

There is a lot of good common sense in this post.
Chances are, Steven Harper hasn't changed his stripes when it comes to this issue.
Bu the knows that he will be smeared irreparably in an election over issues such as this.

One might only hope that the media itself begins to fully realize thay theyhave a stake in all of this. As long as it doesn't degenerate into a left vs.right issue, there may be some liberal journalists too who begin to see that it is just not a very good precdedent being set, to have the government able to limit what they have to say.

[bluecon]

If Harper can not even make a stand on free speech he is pathetic. I have E-mailed the Conservatives about this and do not even receive a reply. Although I know they will not be long before phoning for contributions. Of course if i will no longer be contributing.

[Darren]

If Harper can not even make a stand on free speech he is pathetic. I have E-mailed the Conservatives about this and do not even receive a reply. Although I know they will not be long before phoning for contributions. Of course if i will no longer be contributing.

I joined the Reform Party in 1991 or 92 (I can't remember that far back - as soon as they started forming riding associations in Ontario.

I voted for Preston Manning in 1993 and 1997.

When the Reform Party morphed into the Canadian Alliance in 1999, i duly turned in my Reform Party membership for a CA membership, and voted for Stock Day.

In 2004 and 2006 I voted for the CPC and Harper.

In 2000, I was a member of the riding association. I updated membership lists from Calgary for telemarketing purposes, and manned the phones myself. In both 2004 and 2006 I was an active volunteer.

That ends today.

My vote goes to the guy who support Keith Martin's bill. Even if he's NDP. That's it.

This isn't just one issue, it is the heart and soul of what makes us who we are. Without true freedom of speech, we're no better than the Jihadis or the North Koreans. Our democratic freedoms are part of my heritage as a Briton and a member of the western democratic tradition, the greatest culture on the planet.

And I will defend it with every means at my disposal.

[Peter O'Donnell]

It's one thing for Harper to make strategic decisions, but entirely another to allow a serious and escalating assault on freedom of speech to go unchallenged, and even mildly supported as far as anyone can determine, by his government.

If this is strategy, it is bad strategy. If the prime minister of the country is not strong enough to make his case in a hostile media environment, then he is very weak indeed.

Leaving this issue for an election campaign is not wise; some other issue could erupt to the forefront and in the short time available, freedom of speech might never become part of the campaign. It must begin now, or this party will lose credibility with social conservatives across Canada. And without our vote, they will lose many ridings.

Time to do the right thing, Mr Harper -- man up and join the battle. Place the HRC network on notice that the game is up.

[james debar]

A day worth commemorating for all the righ[/color]t reasons.


http://pacificgatepost.blogspot.com/200 ... minds.html

[shiva]

My vote goes to the guy who support Keith Martin's bill. Even if he's NDP

Yeah, let me know when you find one of those.

[exxsi]

YouTube Video
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 2
and
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2

...exposing language discrimination, ethnic cleansing, racism, bigotry... going on in Quebec, because our governments have allowed this to happen over the last 4 decades and have been silent about it. While almost one million English speaking citizens have been forced to leave Quebec, our politicians have done absolutely nothing to stop this. While the English language has been all but banned in Quebec with bill 22, bill 178 and bill 101 ...the French language has been forced on the rest of the country. Untold Billions of dollars have been spent spreading the French language across the country with no end in sight. Real human rights violations going on in Canada. Spread the word please.

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 1
Part 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk1D5wfD ... re=related

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2
Part 2 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a2NTwFP7g ... re=related

Language discrimination - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7MSJpLQMdk

www.NotHarper.com

[DrWright]

If Harper can not even make a stand on free speech he is pathetic. I have E-mailed the Conservatives about this and do not even receive a reply. Although I know they will not be long before phoning for contributions. Of course if i will no longer be contributing.

I got a reply,

Hello Gary:


I appreciate you taking the forward your concerns to my office. I would like to express that I and the Conservative government strongly believe that individual rights and freedom of speech are paramount in a free and democratic society.




As you may well understand, The Canadian Human Rights Commission (CHRC) is an independent body that operates at arm’s length from the Government of Canada, administers the Canadian Human Rights Act and reports to Parliament independently. However, the Department of Justice does monitor the Commission and Tribunal to ensure that it remains effective.






In light of recent concern surrounding CHRC’s practices, our Conservative government has introduced a motion to Parliament’s Justice Committee proposing an investigation into these questionable practices. Rick Dykstra, a Conservative MP, brought forward this resolution with the approval of the Minister of Justice, Rob Nicholson.






The motion specifically refers to public “concerns” about the CHRC’s “investigative techniques” and their “interpretation and application” of the section 13 thought crimes provision. The House of Commons Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights will examine and make recommendations with respect to the CHRC, including its mandate, operations, and interpretation and application of provisions relating to section 13 of the CHRA, which addresses hate messages. I look forward to that review.






Also, as Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Indian Affairs, I worked very hard to see the passage of Bill C-21. This legislation, which has received royal assent, will establish individual rights on First Nations reserves. Our government is finally bringing an end to a legislative gap that has shamefully left First Nations people living on-reserve without full access to the Canadian Human Rights Act for 30 years. For the first time, the individual rights of people on-reserve will be recognized by law, and not forfeited automatically in favour of collective rights.




I trust that this information helps to address your concern. Thank you again for contacting my office as I am always pleased to discuss the strong work of our government.




Sincerely,

Rod Bruinooge



http://marginalizedactiondinosaur.net/?p=4420
cheers,

[Monorprise]

Harper government wimps out in free speech fight

<a href=http://www.noapologies.ca/2008/02/news-for-feb-12-08.html>"NoApologies.ca </a>has obtained a copy of a document circulated to all Conservative MP's from Justice Minister Rob Nicholson's office late last week.

"The document is entitled <a href=http://www.noapologies.ca/CHRC%20Talking%20Points.doc>'Talking points re: CHRA & CHRC', </a> and it basically instructs MP's to keep a very low profile on any discussion surrounding Section 13 of the Canadian Human Rights Act.

(...)

"The document also instructs MP's to essentially shift the focus away from the Section 13 discussion by talking about the government's ongoing efforts to repeal Section 67 of the Act. That section essentially exempts First Nations from any and all provisions or enforcement of the Act in cases where discrimination happens on native land."

Read the whole thing.

You can send your polite concerns directly to the Prime Minister's Office by clicking on the banner below.

You might want to ask why the Harper government is more committed to <a href=http://www.cjob.com/news/index.aspx?src=loc&mc=local&rem=85395>building a $100 million Museum for Human Rights </a>than to ensuring real, live freedom of speech in the here and now.


http://www.fivefeetoffury.com/

In a certain light it is funny, how the same people who want to "embrace" human-rights, are in practice stamping upon the same actual and practical human rights in the same act nearly as hard as some of the worst tyrants.


Our founders had it right when we let the idea that rights come form Governments rather then God/nature. We inevitably begin the downfall of them rights. When we forget that government merely exist to Protect those PREEXISTING rights from the usurpation of others, NOT ever to in any way provide anything. We do in fact see government in the business of usurping rights in the very same way as it decides who to deal out and in what form rights and who to not deal out rights.
Just as we see government creating all "new" rights that come at the experience and utter extermination of older preexisting natural rights.

This my friend is the root of all tyranny. It is the idea that Rights come from government rather then individual men and their creator. The idea that government can somehow create a right that did not exist before.

The difference between a free constitutional republic, build upon constitutional consent of the governed and that of a mere dictator is that the dictator see him/herself as the originator of all rights, thus giving him/her the inherit right to define what his/her people can and cannot do, what they must and must not do.

This is to say: what rights everyone else do and do not have.

That is the significant of atheism to communist, it is a gateway to power and control over the people they could not have otherwise. It is also in older ages the reason why many rulers tried to portray themselves as gods.(not so easy to do given they are mortals). Control the people's rights, and you control everything most securely.

[Edward Kennedy]

YouTube Video
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 2
and
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2

...exposing language discrimination, ethnic cleansing, racism, bigotry... going on in Quebec, because our governments have allowed this to happen over the last 4 decades and have been silent about it. While almost one million English speaking citizens have been forced to leave Quebec, our politicians have done absolutely nothing to stop this. While the English language has been all but banned in Quebec with bill 22, bill 178 and bill 101 ...the French language has been forced on the rest of the country. Untold Billions of dollars have been spent spreading the French language across the country with no end in sight. Real human rights violations going on in Canada. Spread the word please.

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 1
Part 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk1D5wfD ... re=related

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2
Part 2 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a2NTwFP7g ... re=related

Language discrimination - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7MSJpLQMdk

www.NotHarper.com

This attitude of racism and bigotry costs quebec more than they realize...for example, I chose at the beginning of this trip to cross the border at Gananoque and travel across the northern USA then back into Canada at New Brunswick instead of dropping my $$$ in that damned running sore quebec.

Actions of the nature they commit do have an unintended effect against them.

[centrestage]

YouTube Video
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 2
and
"This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2

...exposing language discrimination, ethnic cleansing, racism, bigotry... going on in Quebec, because our governments have allowed this to happen over the last 4 decades and have been silent about it. While almost one million English speaking citizens have been forced to leave Quebec, our politicians have done absolutely nothing to stop this. While the English language has been all but banned in Quebec with bill 22, bill 178 and bill 101 ...the French language has been forced on the rest of the country. Untold Billions of dollars have been spent spreading the French language across the country with no end in sight. Real human rights violations going on in Canada. Spread the word please.

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 1 of 1
Part 1 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=Nbk1D5wfD ... re=related

YouTube Video: "This Video is Banned in Quebec" 2 of 2
Part 2 - http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=a2NTwFP7g ... re=related

Language discrimination - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7MSJpLQMdk

www.NotHarper.com

This attitude of racism and bigotry costs quebec more than they realize...for example, I chose at the beginning of this trip to cross the border at Gananoque and travel across the northern USA then back into Canada at New Brunswick instead of dropping my $$$ in that damned running sore quebec.

Actions of the nature they commit do have an unintended effect against them.

Good for you my friend but racist New Brunswick is probably just as bad as the racist Quebec Nation for practicing discrimination against its anglo citizens.
I wont travel through either province because of this.

Here is the anglo society of NB website which describes in some detail, the of the problems anglos are facing in that racist province.

http://www.asnb.ca/

[The Islander]

I have a burning question born out of sheer curiosity. Why is it that these spammers always reach back into some old posting to tack their messages onto? Would it not be easier to take the last message posted and hawk their wares there?

[styky]

I have a burning question born out of sheer curiosity. Why is it that these spammers always reach back into some old posting to tack their messages onto? Would it not be easier to take the last message posted and hawk their wares there?

Styky notes and this thread appear on the home page so it's the first thing they see when they come to the site.

[LAR]

I have a burning question born out of sheer curiosity. Why is it that these spammers always reach back into some old posting to tack their messages onto? Would it not be easier to take the last message posted and hawk their wares there?

Styky notes and this thread appear on the home page so it's the first thing they see when they come to the site.

Could you put an 'idiot's forum' thread there instead?