Vote conservative, not Tory!

[Retired_can_soldier]

So who do you want then? By the way I'm not whining, but excellent assumption on your part. Funny how folks get their back up when you point out the obvious flaw in their reasoning.

Yeah it's just as valid a line of reasoning as demanding support for a Liberal instead of a Liberal eh?

I want Tory out as leader and a real conservative in.

I want the Progressive name dropped from the OPC.

I want policy determined by delegates at a convention instead of this undemocratic "consultation" crap.For starters.

There you go! Debating your point without calling me a whiner LOL.

I'm proud of you even if I disagree with you.

[GratianGasparri]

So who do you want then? By the way I'm not whining, but excellent assumption on your part. Funny how folks get their back up when you point out the obvious flaw in their reasoning.

Yeah it's just as valid a line of reasoning as demanding support for a Liberal instead of a Liberal eh?

I want Tory out as leader and a real conservative in.

I want the Progressive name dropped from the OPC.

I want policy determined by delegates at a convention instead of this undemocratic "consultation" crap.For starters.

There you go! Debating your point without calling me a whiner LOL.

I'm proud of you even if I disagree with you.

Does this mean you will answer his challenge and show us where John Tory is different from Dalton McGuinty in terms of policy and direction?

[gimbol]

Wow, great thread....how long will this one go for? The entire election?

After reading some of it I've made the following observations.

1- John Tory is not as deep a blue hue as some would like.
2- Some of you want him to lose so his replacement can be justified in doing some "house cleaning".
3- Some are willing to cast your vote with a different party as they may be a "deeper blue" than what the OPC is.
4- Some are wailing in dispair at the propsect of McGuinty winning a majority due to the family feud going on in conservative ranks.

Solutions?

Ok here's a couple.

When the next leadership vote takes place, get out and support your "true conservative" choice.

Should Tory actually win this election, suck it up and get with the program, if as some think, he's about to have his butt handed to him on a platter, be gratious, do not go on a witch hunt or designated blamee.

During the current campaign, choose where you send your support by the individual candidate and how "blue" they are. Disregard party of choice, think of the individual.

As for the campaign, a suggestion for those of your that want to stir the pot, let your OPC candidate know in clear language that should they be successful on election day that under no circumstances are they to surrender their seat should John Tory be unable to win his.

An interesting slogan for the campaign?

"Dalton's two-tier Ontario? Two-tier justice, two-tier education...can two-tier health care be far behind?"

[Retired_can_soldier]

So who do you want then? By the way I'm not whining, but excellent assumption on your part. Funny how folks get their back up when you point out the obvious flaw in their reasoning.

Yeah it's just as valid a line of reasoning as demanding support for a Liberal instead of a Liberal eh?

I want Tory out as leader and a real conservative in.

I want the Progressive name dropped from the OPC.

I want policy determined by delegates at a convention instead of this undemocratic "consultation" crap.For starters.

There you go! Debating your point without calling me a whiner LOL.

I'm proud of you even if I disagree with you.

Does this mean you will answer his challenge and show us where John Tory is different from Dalton McGuinty in terms of policy and direction?

Hmmmmmmmmm where is John Tory different.

First of all:

1. John Tory did not sign a pledge not to raise taxes then bring in a Health Tax;

2 John Tory did not give away 20 Million dollars to Liberal friendly groups while claiming the budget was tight;

3. John Tory did not lie about closing coal fire plants; and

4. John Tory doesn't look like Norman Bates.

There are differences. Maybe Tory is not conservative enough for you folks, maybe he's a Red Tory, but voting Green or Freedom or Christian Coalition or Rhino aint gonna get rid of McGuinty and sure as heck aint going to further a conservative agenda..

[doggedlyright]

First of all:

1. John Tory did not sign a pledge not to raise taxes then bring in a Health Tax;

No but he did say during an interview on TVO that he could not promise a cut in taxes. That also means he cannot promise not to raise taxes. (So far his promises are indicating a tax increase which he will say is revenue neutral which really means more moeny out of our pockets)

2 John Tory did not give away 20 Million dollars to Liberal friendly groups while claiming the budget was tight;

No he is not in power but he has been the benefactor of the largesse of the former PCPC. He never said diddly swuat about that.. However, he would only have a been program with better leadership to make sure more money would make it to his friends hands.

3. John Tory did not lie about closing coal fire plants; and

No he was not in power. However, he is all agreeable to closing them but would have a better program with better leadership to close them.

4. John Tory doesn't look like Norman Bates.

When you are down to personal insults, I know that Tory has lost.

Look, there is one significant difference between Tory and McGuinty. Tory is a silver spoon in the mouth kid that has never had to worry one day in his life where a person will make enough money to feed, clothe and shelter his family. Tory is the worst kind of person for political life... a champagne sipping social progressive of the downtown Toronto kind that uses people's bad position in life to further his own plans for life.

[Retired_can_soldier]

First of all:

1. John Tory did not sign a pledge not to raise taxes then bring in a Health Tax;

No but he did say during an interview on TVO that he could not promise a cut in taxes. That also means he cannot promise not to raise taxes. (So far his promises are indicating a tax increase which he will say is revenue neutral which really means more moeny out of our pockets)

2 John Tory did not give away 20 Million dollars to Liberal friendly groups while claiming the budget was tight;

No he is not in power but he has been the benefactor of the largesse of the former PCPC. He never said diddly swuat about that.. However, he would only have a been program with better leadership to make sure more money would make it to his friends hands.

3. John Tory did not lie about closing coal fire plants; and

No he was not in power. However, he is all agreeable to closing them but would have a better program with better leadership to close them.

4. John Tory doesn't look like Norman Bates.

When you are down to personal insults, I know that Tory has lost.

Look, there is one significant difference between Tory and McGuinty. Tory is a silver spoon in the mouth kid that has never had to worry one day in his life where a person will make enough money to feed, clothe and shelter his family. Tory is the worst kind of person for political life... a champagne sipping social progressive of the downtown Toronto kind that uses people's bad position in life to further his own plans for life.

Personal insults. LOL Hey doggedlythinks hes right grab a friggin sense of humour will yuh.

Might make you look a little less like a tight ass.

As I said before I'm beating a dead dog here, but I'll add one last comparison. John Tory has never ordered the invasion of Poland or France or Russia, but then again he hasn't been elected yet so who's too say he won't.

ROFLMAO

[doggedlyright]

Thanks for the continuing the personal insults.

Kind of hard to refute the truth!!!!

Edited to add:

To be honest, not many of us in this forum really wish to have Dalton back in power.

Unfortuantely, when we compare Tory to McGuinty, Tory loses big. You suggest McGuinty is a proven liar, but what about Tory. He calls himself a conservative but everything out of his mouth indicates he is a liberal. Isn't that being dishonest.

So we as conservatives are but in an awkward position .... support a disingenuous conservative leader or a liberal leader that has lied about everything. This time there is no choosing the lessern of two evils because the Tories and the Libs are equally evil. Hence, we are seeking alternative parties to place our support. Personally, I would lay my support with any FPO candidate tis time as that party is at least talking about conservative values.

I do not have a FPO candidate therefore, my ballot will be destroyed.

To indicate how displease the people are with their choices this time around, I was with a crowd of first year UofT students yesterday and when asked how many would vote, over 90% said no choice is acceptable therefore they will not vote. When asked why, they said not one leader cares for the future of the province and all indicated that they did not expect to be living in Toronto or central Canada but out west or in the US. They see no opportunity for a future in Ontario and like the low taxes of the US and Alberta.

Further asking them about how they came to these conclusions, many indicated that it was a result of reviewing the blogs. The left wing ones scared them and the more conservative ones sounded more logical and caring to them. That is why the left and the progressives wish to shut down the internet or force a fairness doctrine which means shutting up the conservative voice.

There is hope.

[Dacre]

Why is this so hard for some people to understand? Voting John Tory will not further the cause of conservatism one bit. In my opinion he will in fact hurt it. John Tory is the type that leads people to say things like "what's the difference who I vote for they're all the same anyway". It's time this age old game ended here in Canada. We've had enough of liberalism and John Tory will only continue that. Maybe a good beating will help the OPC lose some arrogance and try to appeal to conservatives and try to stop the decline of our society and the growth of government. The OPC could have just as easily tried to secure the conservative vote and decided not to. Now they will suffer the consequences. The last thing they need is to be rewarded for it. I'm voting FCP. They haven't answered my concerns like I'm part of the problem like the OPC has. It sounds like whining. You make your bed you lie in it.

[Dacre]

By the way great arguments doggedly.

[Retired_can_soldier]

It is all very clear to me now.

I am not in the company of principled conservatives. I am in the company of conservative zealots. Damn everything for our cause is just.

[SUZANNE]

RCS

Neither John Tory nor Dalton McGuinty represent ANY kind of advance for conservatism.

If you think either represents some kind of step forward, then make your case.

[T.G.]

Neither John Tory nor Dalton McGuinty represent ANY kind of advance for conservatism.

Absolutely. How anyone could think Tory stands for anything conservative is beyond me. This election is a writeoff with respect to the three major parties. Vote FCP.

[CrunchyCon]

I do not have a FPO candidate therefore, my ballot will be destroyed.

You probably have a Family Coalition Party (FCP) candidate. They're running in about three-quarters of the ridings. Voting FCP will send a stronger message than destroying one's ballot.

[GratianGasparri]

Might make you look a little less like a tight ass.

Unlike the loose asses with whom John Tory regularly photo ops, Doggedlyright would rather keep his ass nice and tight. As would I for that matter. But to each his own.

[GratianGasparri]

I am not in the company of principled conservatives. I am in the company of conservative zealots. Damn everything for our cause is just.

That's the best argument you've produced yet. Vote John Tory or we Red Tories will insult you by calling you extremists and zealots. After all, we need to be fashionable and get with the times.

In that case, why not vote Liberal? After all, most reputable polls in the province put Dalton's personal popularity higher than Tory's.