Day says new prisons needed for 'unreported crimes'

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Postby LAR » 08/ 04/ 10 9:42 pm

Connie Fournier wrote:
LAR wrote:It sure looks like deciding they want to build new prisons and then making up any reason they can think of for doing it.


Well, they can't very well tell us they are making room in there for US, can they?? :lol:


After seeing Day's praise for Lucy's activities ya gotta wonder.
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Postby styky » 10/ 03/ 10 9:31 am

Stockwell Day 1, media 0: Goldstein

Unreported crime jumps at an ‘alarming’ rate, proving his ‘absurd’ argument was right

By LORRIE GOLDSTEIN, Toronto Sun

Last Updated: October 2, 2010 11:19pm
http://www.torontosun.com/comment/colum ... 53901.html

Over the summer, Treasury Board President Stockwell Day took a pounding from Ottawa’s chattering classes for observing the amount of unreported crime in Canada is increasing at an “alarming” rate.

Some pundits mocked Day by arguing, incorrectly, that since “unreported” crime can’t be measured, it was absurd for Day to claim it was rising.

Others ridiculed him for (accurately) citing “six-year-old” data from 2004, even though that was the most up-to-date information available at the time.

Last week, Statistics Canada released its latest figures on unreported crime, based on crime victimization data compiled for the General Social Survey (GSS), a scientific poll of 19,500 Canadians over the age of 15, conducted once every five years.

The numbers confirm exactly what Day said.

Unreported crime in Canada is increasing at an “alarming,” or, if you prefer, a statistically significant rate.

The GSS estimates in 2009, only 31% of crimes were reported to police, part of a steady drop since 1999, when 37% were reported. (In 2004, it was 34%.)

Only an estimated 29% of violent crimes such as sexual assault, robbery and physical assault were reported in 2009, a level Statistics Canada describes as stable since 1999, when it was 31%.

However, there have been significant decreases in the reporting of household crimes (break and enter, motor vehicle/parts theft, household property theft and vandalism), down from an estimated 44% of all incidents in 1999 to 36% last year.

Similarly, reported theft of personal property dropped from 35% of all incidents in 1999 to 28% last year.

It’s also estimated 88% of sexual assaults weren’t reported to police in 2009.

One major reason why so much crime goes unreported is the victim believes, rightly or wrongly, the incident is too minor for the police to become involved. (Another is the victim believes reporting the crime won’t do any good.)

But that doesn’t mean the GSS only covers minor crimes.

It’s estimated one in five unreported sexual assaults are sexual attacks, involving physical violence or threats.

To be clear, the latest statistics support Day’s argument the increasing incidence of unreported crime is, indeed, alarming.

This comes, remember, in the face of a political and media culture on Parliament Hill that overwhelmingly opposes Conservative attempts to toughen the criminal justice system and can barely conceal its contempt for such efforts.

By way of illustration, Day’s original remarks about the increase in unreported crime were in response to a reporter mockingly asking him why, as fiscal conservatives, the Tories would “blow” billions of dollars on more prison spending, when crime was declining and thus there was no need.

That was a reference to Canada’s reported crime rate dropping 3% in 2009 and 17% over the previous decade (while remaining 316% higher, for violent crime, compared to the early 1960s).

Day, in citing rising unreported crime, was making the valid point in reply that reported crime rates to police don’t tell the whole story about the actual incidence of crime.

Unfortunately, he also made it in the context of the other half of the reporter’s question, about more prison spending.

This prompted the media to mock Day for citing stats on unreported crime at all, claiming either there was no such thing (untrue), or that unreported crime is irrelevant to prison spending (largely true).

Then again, small drops in the annual reported crime rate, the media’s entire premise for challenging Day on increased prison spending, are also irrelevant to that issue.

What’s relevant, as Day noted, is Conservative measures to toughen sentencing, such as ending the two-for-one discount for time spent in pre-trial custody, create a need for more prison space.

If the Tories toughen sentencing and don’t spend more on our aging prisons, they’ll make prison overcrowding even worse than it is today.

Then they’ll be mocked by the same media accusing them of spending too much on new prison construction, for not spending enough.
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Postby Charles J. White » 10/ 03/ 10 10:04 am

Connie Fournier wrote:This government is giving me the creeps.


I agree
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Postby styky » 10/ 03/ 10 10:27 am

article wrote:If the Tories toughen sentencing and don’t spend more on our aging prisons, they’ll make prison overcrowding even worse than it is today.

Then they’ll be mocked by the same media accusing them of spending too much on new prison construction, for not spending enough.


I could give a ratsass whether they are crowded. If you don't obey the law and put Canadians in peril I want you in jail for as long as possible and if it's crowded big ruddy deal, get used to it. [-(
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Postby Shibumi 2 » 10/ 03/ 10 1:02 pm

styky wrote:
article wrote:If the Tories toughen sentencing and don’t spend more on our aging prisons, they’ll make prison overcrowding even worse than it is today.

Then they’ll be mocked by the same media accusing them of spending too much on new prison construction, for not spending enough.


I could give a ratsass whether they are crowded. If you don't obey the law and put Canadians in peril I want you in jail for as long as possible and if it's crowded big ruddy deal, get used to it. [-(


Overcrowding in our prisons here after to be known as double-bunking makes things more dangerous for those of us who walk the ranges every day. Yet there are lots of people who post here who think that Correctional Officers as part of the public sector are way overpaid, pension too generous, under worked etc. Can't have it both ways folks. I think we are one good riot away from having a lot of staff at my joint come to the abrupt realization that maybe they want to experience a different type of employment. Anyone who wants to can come on out and apply for a job. Starting wage is roughly 50,000 to start and then you to can live the dream of life on easy street.
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Postby Fabulous Fred » 10/ 03/ 10 1:10 pm

Trying to measure "unreported crime" is pure unadulterated fiction.

Lorrie Goldstein is an idiot for defending this absurdity.

No doubt she also is an enthusiastic supporter of the spill your guts to the government or go to jail long form census.
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Postby RadicallyLiberal » 10/ 03/ 10 1:12 pm

Fabulous Fred wrote:Trying to measure "unreported crime" is pure unadulterated fiction.

Lorrie Goldstein is an idiot for defending this absurdity.

No doubt she also is an enthusiastic supporter of the spill your guts to the government or go to jail long form census.




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Postby Fabulous Fred » 10/ 03/ 10 1:13 pm

Alright then, not only does he have a girls name, he is full of ****!

My mistake.
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Postby RadicallyLiberal » 10/ 03/ 10 1:22 pm

He was was the worst editor of the Sun ever.

From the great Peter Worthington & Barbara Amiel, then John Downing, to Goldstein and Williamson.

It used to be a really principled paper on the editorial page and with it's great columnists. I stopped buying it regularly in the Goldstein days.
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Postby styky » 06/ 03/ 11 11:56 am

In other words these were at one time unreported crime because the powers that be did not have to include them. This should lead to the other question......what else are they leaving off to skew the numbers up or down.




Changes skew some Ottawa crime stats
CBC News
Posted: Jun 1, 2011 3:04 PM ET
Last Updated: Jun 1, 2011 3:04 PM ET


An Ottawa Police Services decision to include failure to appear charges as separate criminal charges in a report of 2010 crime statistics appears to have skewed results released Monday, particularly for Somerset Ward.

On Monday evening Ottawa Police chief Vern White presented statistics for the last calendar year to the Ottawa Police Services Board, showing crime had dropped in the city 4.8 per cent from 2009, from 42,268 to 40,257 offences. Property crime and crime against people — including violent crime — also dropped from year to year...................

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/st ... stats.html
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