Ezra's newest book Fight Kyoto

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Postby 0bsidion » 08/ 18/ 03 5:16 pm

Hello everyone! I discovered this site in a fit a liberal rage, but now I'm cooled off and think this is a pretty cool place. I've always thought of myself as a liberal, though the majority of my colleagues classify me as clearly conservative; please don't attack me without cause, I'm not here to make one guilt inspiring post and never return.

Anyway, what prompted my response was Daniel's and Reason's recent posts. Regarding acid rain, what did it take before action was taken? I agree the issue was dealt with quite professionally, but not before many forests and lakes were severely damaged. I think this is a valid question regardless of left/right leanings. What would it take for a clear majority of people to recognize something bad was happening? I don't really know myself.

Even though I'm a greenie, I acknowledge Kyoto will do little-to-nothing at enormous cost. However, as a professor recently shared with me, Kyoto is not about fixing a global problem. It is a statement, albeit an expensive statement, that Canada is willing to work in the international community against a common global problem. I think that's pretty important, and worth considering.

Please don't butcher me like Daniel, I think I really am open minded :lol: !
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Postby khori_wan_kenobi » 08/ 19/ 03 7:01 am

It is a statement, albeit an expensive statement, that Canada is willing to work in the international community against a common global problem. I think that's pretty important, and worth considering

It's a pretty friggin' expensive sttement! Its estimated to cost us between $15 ad $20 billion! And the doens't include the penalty fees we'll have to pay because even according to the governments plan we still won't meet the required reductions by the deadline

I think encouraging cnservation and taking steps to help the environment is great but why did we have to sign Kyoto to do it? We could have done this all on our own without signing the accord.
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Postby Barry Stagg » 09/ 15/ 03 1:49 pm

Kyoto concern should be heightened with the imminent ascendancy of Paul Martin and his professed and historically confirmed worship of the statist cult that manifests itself as one Maurice Strong. Strong gave Martin his first big job with Power Corporation, not too long before Daddy Martin sent Strong off to run CIDA, that Liberal monument to the salutary effects of "whitebread hippies running around in Jeeps", to steal the phrase recently coined by Colby Cosh.
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Postby Ipberg » 09/ 15/ 03 1:53 pm

Barry Stagg wrote:Kyoto concern should be heightened with the imminent ascendancy of Paul Martin and his professed and historically confirmed worship of the statist cult that manifests itself as one Maurice Strong. Strong gave Martin his first big job with Power Corporation, not too long before Daddy Martin sent Strong off to run CIDA, that Liberal monument to the salutary effects of "whitebread hippies running around in Jeeps", to
steal the phrase recently coined by Colby Cosh.


Thanks for reminding us of that, Barry.

For more about Paul Martin & Maurice Strong visit PAUL MARTIN WATCH
http://www.freedominion.ca/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=9743

If he gets a four year mandate, Paul Martin will accelorate Kyoto Treaty protocol implementation and promoting political globalization (like strengthening the mandate of the International Criminal Court) at the behest of his mentor Maurice Strong.
Alberta is prosperous, the population is growing and the government is debt-free. I have no doubt that Liberals, NDPers, Red Tories, Kyoto Treaty bureaucrats, and other provinces will try to make Alberta into Canada's ATM machine.
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Postby Barry Stagg » 09/ 15/ 03 8:13 pm

Paul Martin is a breath of stale air, fragrant with the perfume of insider boosterism that keeps Canadian politics an Old Boys Club with gender modifications to let the favoured sisters play with their lucky brothers. In 1965, it must have been pure providence, happenstance and innocent good fortune that lined up 27 year old Paul Martin with that executive assistant's title working for Maurice Strong at Power Corporation. What an opportunity for the self-made Martin and coming as it did when Daddy still hung in there in Lester Pearson's cabinet while Trudeau shimmied up the dilettante's ladder of bilingualism and biculturalism.
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Postby Barry Stagg » 09/ 16/ 03 11:55 am

In the statist Shangri-la that Maurice Strong has lived in for fifty years, there will always be money for the West to marshall, manage and pay hordes of righteous "whitebread hippies in jeeps" to swan around the Third World and also around Canada. Rapt devotees of penthouse ecology are anxious to have careers that amount to preaching environmentalism from the air-conditioned towers of sanctimony. If Strong is given eminence gris standing in a Martin government, look out for a revival of the tactic of sending the urban young- bourgeois division- out from the big cities to the factory and resource harvesting regions to proselytize for Kyoto on the government tab.

Be aware that the bureaucrat in a tenured government job among the lumber and mining and fishing people will not care if Kyoto curbs the producers viability as long as her regulatory indispensability is fortified. For darn sure, the children of these statist dependents will care even less, again as long as their entry into the career chute is assured.

Smothering our country using smug white collar regulators is well under way. Ask the unemployed and displaced fishermen of Newfoundland how they enjoyed the fifty years it took federal government administrators to destroy the Grand Banks and fishing in Newfoundland in general. That remains the template for the practice of Rideau Canal environmentalism. Fishing was a poor third cousin to any and all other diplomatic and trade concerns of Canada in the period from Newfoundland's Confederation in 1949 to the point in the 1990's when the fishery off Newfoundland was destroyed.

Kyoto represents a consolidation of the professional practice of ungrounded environmentalist careerism. Maurice Strong was and is a charter member of that expensive club.
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Postby Dan » 02/ 06/ 04 2:49 pm

Having accidentally stumbled upon this site I was shocked and deeply troubled with what I've read. Half of me wants to laugh at the horrible ignorance and half of me wants to cry that people will so easily betray our beautiful Country for the lure of the dollar. All I can say is God have mercy on us all.
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Postby Mark Fournier » 02/ 06/ 04 2:51 pm

Dan wrote:Having accidentally stumbled upon this site I was shocked and deeply troubled with what I've read. Half of me wants to laugh at the horrible ignorance and half of me wants to cry that people will so easily betray our beautiful Country for the lure of the dollar. All I can say is God have mercy on us all.

ROTFLMAO!!! :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Postby trutheau » 10/ 09/ 04 6:04 am

why do you all hate the world so much?
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Postby Blue Canadian » 11/ 09/ 04 10:02 am

Way to go, Ezra! I can't wait to get hold of this book! :hurray:

In the meantime, here's a prime example of the economic mess waiting for Prime Minister Dithers:

"When Russia agreed to ratify the Kyoto protocol on greenhouse gas emissions last month, one might have expected popping Champagne corks in Japan. After all, Russia's move meant the treaty, signed seven years ago in Japan's ancient capital, would now come into force rather than fading into oblivion.

Yet, according to diplomats and private-sector observers, the reaction instead has been closer to panic.

The reason is that Japan is far behind on its Kyoto obligations. In the treaty, it pledged to cut emissions by 6 per cent from 1990 levels over the period 2008-2012. At last count, in 2002, it was 7.6 per cent above 1990 levels, a figure expected to exceed 8 per cent when fresh data are published." (Financial Times, Nov 04 2004)


Just substitute Canada for Japan, and you'll get the general idea. Canada doesn't even HAVE a plan! But we do have the obligations. And when it becomes painfully obvious that we can't meet our reduction targets, just how badly will Canada be punished under this treaty? :x
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Postby free radical » 02/ 10/ 06 7:44 am

Ezra's wrong! Period.
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Postby Nemo2 » 02/ 10/ 06 7:50 am

free radical wrote:Ezra's wrong! Period.
Well, OK, since you phrase your argument so eloquently and provide totally verifiable footnotes........
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Oy!

Postby dantheman40k » 05/ 08/ 06 4:16 pm

What's Known for Certain?
Scientists know for certain that human activities are changing the composition of Earth's atmosphere. Increasing levels of greenhouse gases, like carbon dioxide (CO2 ), in the atmosphere since pre-industrial times have been well documented. There is no doubt this atmospheric buildup of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gases is largely the result of human activities.

It's well accepted by scientists that greenhouse gases trap heat in the Earth's atmosphere and tend to warm the planet. By increasing the levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere, human activities are strengthening Earth's natural greenhouse effect. The key greenhouse gases emitted by human activities remain in the atmosphere for periods ranging from decades to centuries.

A warming trend of about 1°F has been recorded since the late 19th century. Warming has occurred in both the northern and southern hemispheres, and over the oceans. Confirmation of 20th-century global warming is further substantiated by melting glaciers, decreased snow cover in the northern hemisphere and even warming below ground.


What's Likely but not Certain?
Figuring out to what extent the human-induced accumulation of greenhouse gases since pre-industrial times is responsible for the global warming trend is not easy. This is because other factors, both natural and human, affect our planet's temperature. Scientific understanding of these other factors – most notably natural climatic variations, changes in the sun's energy, and the cooling effects of pollutant aerosols – remains incomplete.

Nevertheless, the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) stated there was a "discernible" human influence on climate; and that the observed warming trend is "unlikely to be entirely natural in origin." In the most recent Third Assessment Report (2001), IPCC wrote "There is new and stronger evidence that most of the warming observed over the last 50 years is attributable to human activities."

In short, scientists think rising levels of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere are contributing to global warming, as would be expected; but to what extent is difficult to determine at the present time.

As atmospheric levels of greenhouse gases continue to rise, scientists estimate average global temperatures will continue to rise as a result. By how much and how fast remain uncertain. IPCC projects further global warming of 2.2-10°F (1.4-5.8°C) by the year 2100. This range results from uncertainties in greenhouse gas emissions, the possible cooling effects of atmospheric particles such as sulfates, and the climate's response to changes in the atmosphere.

The IPCC states that even the low end of this warming projection "would probably be greater than any seen in the last 10,000 years, but the actual annual to decadal changes would include considerable natural variability."


What are the Big Unknowns?
Scientists have identified that our health, agriculture, water resources, forests, wildlife and coastal areas are vulnerable to the changes that global warming may bring. But projecting what the exact impacts will be over the 21st century remains very difficult. This is especially true when one asks how a local region will be affected.

Scientists are more confident about their projections for large-scale areas (e.g., global temperature and precipitation change, average sea level rise) and less confident about the ones for small-scale areas (e.g., local temperature and precipitation changes, altered weather patterns, soil moisture changes). This is largely because the computer models used to forecast global climate change are still ill-equipped to simulate how things may change at smaller scales. [See the U.S. Climate section for more detail on climate models.]

Some of the largest uncertainties are associated with events that pose the greatest risk to human societies. IPCC cautions, "Complex systems, such as the climate system, can respond in non-linear ways and produce surprises." There is the possibility that a warmer world could lead to more frequent and intense storms, including hurricanes. Preliminary evidence suggests that, once hurricanes do form, they will be stronger if the oceans are warmer due to global warming. However, the jury is still out whether or not hurricanes and other storms will become more frequent.

More and more attention is being aimed at the possible link between El Niño events – the periodic warming of the equatorial Pacific Ocean – and global warming. Scientists are concerned that the accumulation of greenhouse gases could inject enough heat into Pacific waters such that El Niño events become more frequent and fierce. Here too, research has not advanced far enough to provide conclusive statements about how global warming will affect El Niño.


Living with Uncertainty
Like many pioneer fields of research, the current state of global warming science can't always provide definitive answers to our questions. There is certainty that human activities are rapidly adding greenhouse gases to the atmosphere, and that these gases tend to warm our planet. This is the basis for concern about global warming.

The fundamental scientific uncertainties are these: How much more warming will occur? How fast will this warming occur? And what are the potential adverse and beneficial effects? These uncertainties will be with us for some time, perhaps decades.

Global warming poses real risks. The exact nature of these risks remains uncertain. Ultimately, this is why we have to use our best judgement – guided by the current state of science – to determine what the most appropriate response to global warming should be.

http://www.epa.gov/globalwarming/
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Global warming

Postby Personalist » 05/ 08/ 06 4:42 pm

Good grief! For a complete refutation of every statement, read "State of Fear" by Michael Crichton - unless you're afraid of the light!
Barry Goldwater was wrong. Extremism is our greatest problem.

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Postby dantheman40k » 05/ 10/ 06 4:50 pm

I think it is YOU and not US that is afraid of the light.There is lots of physical evinence that Global Warming is happening, look at the ice caps that are slowly shrinking, look at the holes in the ozone layer! The only reason you guys dont like the idea Global Warming is because stopping it from happening will make you LOSE MONEY!!! Cant have that can we?
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