Western Separation??? Where is you love for Canada?

[styky]

The West wants out?
By: The Brandon Sun

Any Manitoban who believes in Canada should be sickened by a new poll that suggests more than a third of Western Canadians believe we would be better off on our own.

University of Lethbridge political scientist and pollster Faron Ellis asked 1,448 whether they agreed with the idea “Western Canadians should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.” The poll, which was conducted for the Western Standard magazine and reported by the National Post, found support for separation highest in Alberta (42 per cent), followed by Saskatchewan (31.9 per cent), B.C. (30.8 per cent) and Manitoba (27.5 per cent).

While the support would probably be lower if Ellis had asked people a more direct question like “Do you think the four Western provinces should form their own country, yes or no?” the results are troubling, especially since support for separation ran highest among young people. Thirty-seven per cent of those surveyed between 18 and 29 supported separation, while just 33.7 per cent of baby-boomers between 45 and 64 thought leaving Canada would be a good thing.

What this poll says is that Ottawa and the federal Liberals cannot take Western Canada for granted. Whether its grievances are real or imaginary, Western Canadians are frustrated that our MPs are always in opposition and frustrated our tax dollars are wasted on crooked advertising schemes in Quebec.

If Prime Minister Paul Martin truly cares about Western alienation, he will tackle this challenge head-on. Western separation today is a far greater threat to Canada than the stirrings of the sovereignists in Quebec.

Martin must give people west of Lake of the Woods a reason to believe their contributions to Confederation are valued and taken seriously — and not just bribe us with our own tax dollars like the Liberals do in Ontario and Quebec.

And for the rest of us who believe in Canada one and indivisible, we have work to do to convince our neighbours that we’re a lot better off in Canada than we would ever be on our own.

http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=818

[MikeR]

If Prime Minister Paul Martin truly cares about Western alienation, he will tackle this challenge head-on. Western separation today is a far greater threat to Canada than the stirrings of the sovereignists in Quebec.

Martin must give people west of Lake of the Woods a reason to believe their contributions to Confederation are valued and taken seriously — and not just bribe us with our own tax dollars like the Liberals do in Ontario and Quebec.

Don't listen to the Brandon Sun, Paul!! You just keep doing what you're doing. You're doing a fantastic job! (for the separatists, that is) You're our man in Ottawa!

[snowyman]

Oh man.....better stop....I think somebody is getting ideas!!

Seems like your posts are the only ones that arn't full of themselves . What a bunch of pompous
jerks.

How's this , from a Albertan yet,


Fri, August 12, 2005

Separated from sense

By JOSE RODRIGUEZ

Well, it's official. Life sucks so bad here west of the big smoke that it's time to consider calling it quits on Canada.

At least that's what a recent poll done for a Western-based magazine suggests.

The poll shows that 35.6% of people from Manitoba, Saskatchewan, Alberta and B.C. think Westerners should begin to explore the idea of forming their own country.

Not surprisingly, my home province of Alberta leads the pack with 42% support for the idiotic idea.

Perhaps it's my own naivete, but I always pictured western separatists as aging, overalled, hillbillies no one ever heard from until it was time to, well, do a poll about separation.

You know the type, happily hunting and fishing in some backwoods somewhere with their pit bulls tied to a rusty truck bumper and their cousin-turned-wife fixing up roadkill on the trailer stove.

Turns out, it's not that way at all.

According to the poll conducted by Lethbridge Community College political science professor Faron Ellis, separatist sentiment is highest among young people.

Seems 37% of respondents between the ages of 18 and 29 agreed it was time to consider breaking away from Canada.

With more than one-in-three of the 1,448 people polled willing to turn their backs on our country, I figure it may be time for a healthy helping of perspective.

Yes, life sucks as a Canadian.

All those first-world luxuries such as running water, freedom of choice and obligatory health care and education.

The safety and security of knowing you can walk to the corner store after dark without fear of being shot.

Then, there's that whole issue of universal envy from all those who'd sell a kidney or even their first-born just for a chance to be Canadian.

In Alberta, the problem's even worse.

With virtually non-existent unemployment, there's no excuse for not working and the lowest taxation in the country only leads to unnecessary spending.

Yes, life's pretty crappy out here in the neglected West.

And if you believe that, I've got a nice piece of ocean-front property in Red Deer with your name on it.

Sure, things aren't perfect.

There's too much power concentrated in the Prime Minister's office, too much stupid spending and legitimate democratic reforms such as an elected Senate are being ignored.

But separate from Canada?

That's like scrapping a Cadillac because it has a flat tire.

And I'd argue that those who support and promote separation, don't want to separate at all.

It's all a ploy -- born out of justified frustration -- to get the feds to listen.

It is, however, a risky ploy made even more dangerous by the fact it's beginning to garner support among young westerners.

Now, as much as it pains me to admit it, I'm closer to 40 than I am to 30 so I may not be in the best position to dispense advice of any kind to young people.

But most folks I know under 30 have better things to do with their time than contemplate the West's role in confederation.

Important things such as drinks after work, planning the weekend or doing their laundry.

If you really must express your anger with the feds, there are plenty of ways to do that without slicing up my country.

Form a club, write a letter, march on Parliament. Heck, create your own secret handshake.

But don't openly muse about taking the scissors to a country that has become the envy of the world.

It only shows your lack of perspective.

<a href=http://www.canoe.ca/NewsStand/Columnists/Calgary/Jose_Rodriguez/2005/08/12/pf-1169511.html>LINK HERE</a>

[Princess_Jules]

Just because he writes for the Calgary Sun does not mean he is an Albertan. Journalists move around all the time.

Even if he is an Albertan no one claimed 100% of Albertans agree.

One last point, Jose does not properly address one single element in this article over what is causing the discontent or offer any reasonable solutions to fix them. Yes, quality of life is good in Canada and Alberta, no one is denying that. The grievances involved in separation issues have nothing whatsoever to do with clean water and jobs for all. This article is a fluffy bit of tripe with no substance at all.

[SpiralTunnel]

Martin must give people west of Lake of the Woods a reason to believe their contributions to Confederation are valued and taken seriously — and not just bribe us with our own tax dollars like the Liberals do in Ontario and Quebec.

I doubt that is even possible.

I doubt that even a Conservative government could repair the damage. The resentment between east and west has grown too large; there are far too many of us that despise each other.

And for the rest of us who believe in Canada one and indivisible, we have work to do to convince our neighbours that we’re a lot better off in Canada than we would ever be on our own.

Indivisible? Watch us, Mr. Brandon Sun, cut the cancer out of our lives. You can be part of the tumor or not, your choice.

The last time a Liberal scumbag dared to open his yap in any group discussing politics or separation that I've participated in, trying to espouse the merits of the Canadian federation, he crashed and burned.

The great TrueDopian society is about to draw its final breath in Alberta.

[tanpro]

Rodriguez is trying to argue his point with outdated information from the time of the NEP backlash. Alberta separatists are now the middle class, educated famly moms and dads who are tired of paying for Quebec loyalty and East coast unemployment cheques. As well, it goes far beyond the economical. It is now an issue of different cultures not being able to co-exist. Canada can keep its SSM laws and its Nazi-inspired gun control registry and its blackmailing Francophones. It can keep its boy-scout policy for its military and its bilingualism. Alberta (and many people in other Western provinces) believe in something different. We believe in small government control of our lives. We trust ourselves to be able to make our own choices in life. We don't believe in a welfare state, or in a French / terrorist linked head of state.

We won't miss Canada at all when we're gone.

[skeena484]

And for the rest of us who believe in Canada one and indivisible, we have work to do to convince our neighbours that we’re a lot better off in Canada than we would ever be on our own.

http://www.brandonsun.com/story.php?story_id=818

That is a huge load of Liberal crap. Alberta and Western Canada have been knocking at the federal door for all of my life and that of my father and grand father and been given the finger. The few brief periods of Canadian history in which Canada was not ruled by liberal dictators resulted from Conservative parties being hijacked by liberal carpetbaggers from Quebec and Ontario. Poor Manitoba caught in the middle of this struggle. My first reaction would be to say that Manitoba should take stock of where they stand and decide if they are in or out. On short reflection I take that back, who cares? This Albertan sure doesn’t give a rats butt about Manitoba. My mother was born and raised in Manitoba. She left Manitoba when she was seventeen years old. Why? Because even during the war there was no future in Manitoba, Socialism and Communism were the order of the day. She moved to Vancouver met my Dad, he came back from the war and they settled in Calgary.

As Albertans we must find a way to convince an electorate, who for the most part are fully employed and secure, that this will not continue if we remain tied to the Canadian anchor that impedes our progress. My generation must convince our children who are now reaching middle age that history has a way of repeating itself if you don’t learn from it. I’ve been there, seen it and done it. I’ve seen friends and relatives loose everything because central Canada coveted and took what Albertans had.

I am neither a politician nor am I a political scholar. I do not profess to have all the answers but I know that Albertans will never be allowed a voice at the Canadian political table. Nor will Western Canadian corporations survive as a component of Canada’s economy.

[MikeR]

Oh man.....better stop....I think somebody is getting ideas!!

Seems like your posts are the only ones that arn't full of themselves . What a bunch of pompous jerks.

Egads! Pompous jerks even!

Care to explain how so?

[MikeR]

For a good thorough fisking of Jose Rodriguez's article...

http://www.projectalberta.com/board/vie ... ?topic=216

[Princess_Jules]

For a good thorough fisking of Jose Rodriguez's article...

http://www.projectalberta.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=210

Mike, this link discusses another article from the Brandon Sun. Do I maybe need to go to the next page to find it?

[MikeR]

For a good thorough fisking of Jose Rodriguez's article...

http://www.projectalberta.com/board/vie ... ?topic=216

Mike, this link discusses another article from the Brandon Sun. Do I maybe need to go to the next page to find it?

Doh!

Sorry! Fixed now!

[NZer]

I know it is not politically appropriate for a foreigner (from New Zealand) to butt into your country's affairs, but I can't help visioning this scenario in 10 years time. Let's see if this is the reality in 2015?

(Originally posted this on FreeRepublic.Com)

----------------------------------------------

The War on Terrorism is now in its 14th year. After George W. Bush's presidency and the defeat of US Democratic candidacies of Hillary Clinton and Rod Blagojevich, the US Democrats finally decided to adopt the war on terrorism as their policy platform, particularly as the simultaneous nuclear bomb attacks in San Francisco, Seattle, and Boston in May 2011 had killed 39% of the Democratic Party base and Washington had the first Republican Senate and Governor for the first time in more than 30 years, while the reconstituted City of San Francisco elected its first ever conservative Republican mayor.

Meanwhile President Bill Owens is busy negotiating with the Federal Republic of the Prairies over coordinating North American missile shield strengthening project and for the first time, the missile shield system will cover areas outside the United States. President Ted Morton had described President Owens as a very valuable friend of the Prairies while Owens remarked that the Prairies is the first nation adjacent to the United States to be serious about the war on terrorism. Following the Prairies' decision to tighten all immigrations and expulaion of all foreign born (including Canadian) Islamic inams, the two countries had agreed to form a single labour market by 2018. When it becomes effective, residents from Yellowknife to Victoria, from Vancouver to Winnipeg will effectively be treated as US citizens when they cross the US border.

Meanwhile, relations with the Realm of Canada remained semi-officially frosty. Many in Canada blame Washington for the terrorist attacks in Toronto in July 2013 and are still bitter over Washington's recognition of the Federal Republic of the Prairies in 2010, which made it all but impossible for the Prairies to be part of Canada again. The Canadian Prime Minister Dalton McGuinty has not yet met President Owens in any bilateral occasions. Because Canada appeared unconcerned with news that instigators of the 2011 terrorist attacks used Canada as their staging point, the United States had decided to implement a policy of bodysearch to all incoming visitors crossing from the International Falls to Calais crossings and reclassified Canadian visitors as equal in status as the visa-waiver nations meaning they are required to carry their passports to enter the United States and cannot stay in the United States visa free for more than 90 days. Teams of volunteers have guarded the Canada-US borders since 2013 and they are unconcerned with the criticisms from Canadian press and people.

The Realm of Canada has been losing its population to the Prairies and the United States by 150,000 per year. The Prairies' GDP has grown by more than 52% while Canada's GDP grew by only 9%. Many of the best researchers have moved to Calgary from Ontario and economic growth of Canada has been languishing at 1.5%. Even with the increased manufacturing operations in 2008 based in Ontario and aerospace and transport industries in Quebec, exports from Canada to the United States declined by 18% as competitions from the Prairies took some shares off the US market, marked by the opening of new Toyota plants in Manitoba and various completely new firms founded by the Prairians such as GBS, CesTech, etc. On the other hand, 1/3 of Chinese, Indians, 90% US draft dodgers in Vancouver, and 95% of the old Liberal Party supporters based in urban centres like Vancouver, Edmonton, and Winnipeg have decided to relocate to Canada as they are not pleased with the direction the Prairies is going. Muslims continue to settle freely in Canada - it is now estimated Canada's Middle Eastern and Pakistani Muslim population is five times the nunber in 2005.

The four Maritimes provinces are raising the spectre of joining the United States after Ontario announces it cannot afford to provide payment transfers to the eastern provinces anymore, while Quebec separatism remains strong, the Prairies' strong economic performances have convinced the Quebecois that socialism does not work and they intend to go it alone without all the federal payment transfers. Ontario residents blame these developments on "those Yanks and their fifth columnists in the West, who have wrecked our nation!". Even five years after independence, Ottawa still has no official diplomatic relations with Edmonton even when Canadians can cross the Canada-Prairies border freely. A survey show that 75% of the Prairian visitors receive discriminations when in Canada, particularly in the Ontario and New Brunswick provinces, and that polls on Canadians reveal the number 1 hate figure is Morton, followed closely by Owens, Bush, and Warren, a conservative former Canadian, but now Prairian, commentator.

---------------------------------------------

[skeena484]

I know it is not politically appropriate for a foreigner (from New Zealand) to butt into your country's affairs, but I can't help visioning this scenario in 10 years time. Let's see if this is the reality in 2015?

(Originally posted this on FreeRepublic.Com)

----------------------------------------------

The War on Terrorism is now in its 14th year. After George W. Bush's presidency and the defeat of US Democratic candidacies of Hillary Clinton and Rod Blagojevich, the US Democrats finally decided to adopt the war on terrorism as their policy platform, particularly as the simultaneous nuclear bomb attacks in San Francisco, Seattle, and Boston in May 2011 had killed 39% of the Democratic Party base and Washington had the first Republican Senate and Governor for the first time in more than 30 years, while the reconstituted City of San Francisco elected its first ever conservative Republican mayor.

Meanwhile President Bill Owens is busy negotiating with the Federal Republic of the Prairies over coordinating North American missile shield strengthening project and for the first time, the missile shield system will cover areas outside the United States. President Ted Morton had described President Owens as a very valuable friend of the Prairies while Owens remarked that the Prairies is the first nation adjacent to the United States to be serious about the war on terrorism. Following the Prairies' decision to tighten all immigrations and expulaion of all foreign born (including Canadian) Islamic inams, the two countries had agreed to form a single labour market by 2018. When it becomes effective, residents from Yellowknife to Victoria, from Vancouver to Winnipeg will effectively be treated as US citizens when they cross the US border.

Meanwhile, relations with the Realm of Canada remained semi-officially frosty. Many in Canada blame Washington for the terrorist attacks in Toronto in July 2013 and are still bitter over Washington's recognition of the Federal Republic of the Prairies in 2010, which made it all but impossible for the Prairies to be part of Canada again. The Canadian Prime Minister Dalton McGuinty has not yet met President Owens in any bilateral occasions. Because Canada appeared unconcerned with news that instigators of the 2011 terrorist attacks used Canada as their staging point, the United States had decided to implement a policy of bodysearch to all incoming visitors crossing from the International Falls to Calais crossings and reclassified Canadian visitors as equal in status as the visa-waiver nations meaning they are required to carry their passports to enter the United States and cannot stay in the United States visa free for more than 90 days. Teams of volunteers have guarded the Canada-US borders since 2013 and they are unconcerned with the criticisms from Canadian press and people.

The Realm of Canada has been losing its population to the Prairies and the United States by 150,000 per year. The Prairies' GDP has grown by more than 52% while Canada's GDP grew by only 9%. Many of the best researchers have moved to Calgary from Ontario and economic growth of Canada has been languishing at 1.5%. Even with the increased manufacturing operations in 2008 based in Ontario and aerospace and transport industries in Quebec, exports from Canada to the United States declined by 18% as competitions from the Prairies took some shares off the US market, marked by the opening of new Toyota plants in Manitoba and various completely new firms founded by the Prairians such as GBS, CesTech, etc. On the other hand, 1/3 of Chinese, Indians, 90% US draft dodgers in Vancouver, and 95% of the old Liberal Party supporters based in urban centres like Vancouver, Edmonton, and Winnipeg have decided to relocate to Canada as they are not pleased with the direction the Prairies is going. Muslims continue to settle freely in Canada - it is now estimated Canada's Middle Eastern and Pakistani Muslim population is five times the nunber in 2005.

The four Maritimes provinces are raising the spectre of joining the United States after Ontario announces it cannot afford to provide payment transfers to the eastern provinces anymore, while Quebec separatism remains strong, the Prairies' strong economic performances have convinced the Quebecois that socialism does not work and they intend to go it alone without all the federal payment transfers. Ontario residents blame these developments on "those Yanks and their fifth columnists in the West, who have wrecked our nation!". Even five years after independence, Ottawa still has no official diplomatic relations with Edmonton even when Canadians can cross the Canada-Prairies border freely. A survey show that 75% of the Prairian visitors receive discriminations when in Canada, particularly in the Ontario and New Brunswick provinces, and that polls on Canadians reveal the number 1 hate figure is Morton, followed closely by Owens, Bush, and Warren, a conservative former Canadian, but now Prairian, commentator.

---------------------------------------------

My compliments for your perception of the Canadian political situation as it relates to Alberta, The United States of America and the World.
That was a great read. Thank you.

[tanpro]

Sad, really. Someone from New Zealand gets it, but millions of Canadians east of the Man/Ont border are clueless after decades...

http://lpsullivan.blogspot.com/

[Peter O'Donnell]

Things won't work out quite like that, methinks. For starters, British Columbia is not going to join any nation that calls itself "the prairies." We'll have to expect a new name to be invented if all of the western provinces and territories want to join up. I think they will, too, if we don't win this next election and start the counter-revolution against Ontario-based Liberal socialism that is overdue in Canada. I believe this could happen, but if it does happen, we have to go all the way and finish this job properly, not do a Mulroney paint-over of the rotting shack. I would prefer that Canada would stay together, but only under the conditions of a serious counter-revolution taking us back to the track we were derailed from after 1965 (to pick an arbitrary date).

I also feel optimistic that Islamic terrorism and North Korea will be much reduced threats to our security by 2008. The same sort of mood of defiance that is emerging in the UK and dare I say in Canada in recent months is probably going to form the basis of a new global wave of conservatism as we saw around 1980 in reaction to the Iranian revolution and the growing discrediting of Vietnam liberal politics.

So my projection of the present into the future calls for a stronger Canada under a Conservative government, gradually returning to a more traditional alliance with the USA and the UK, with the Liberals plunging into a long period of opposition and fighting with the NDP for control of the left as the Conservatives take over the centre.

Another problem with the article was the bit about "Warren" the commentator moving to the prairies. If they're talking about my buddy David Warren, that could only happen if large parts of Toronto slid out there on a tectonic plate. But he can stay in Toronto and feel good about it if we at least get most of Ontario to come to its collective senses and abandon the Canadian Islamic Revolution or whatever the heck is going on in Paul Martin's head since he had those delusions of adequacy in 2003.

Make no mistake, if my optimism is unfounded, I shall be among the first to rise up and shout from the roof-tops, western Canada must be free. But we're not "leaving" Canada in that scenario, we are preserving the original spirit of Canada and perhaps it should be the rest of the country that should be looking for a new name. But the complications of the flag and the Liberal Party's one-party-state tendencies makes this very difficult -- I hope my optimism will be validated by events. At any rate, conservatives in western Canada, don't give up yet, we need to give this thing one last mighty push, and maybe the car will come out of the ditch this time.