After re-doing the prior thread about Amalgamation:

[Hasdrubul]

The Quebec Factor


"What ever beauty may be, it has for its basis order, and for its essence unity." - Father Andre

It seems as though, whenever there is any discussion about Canada, one needs to speak specifically about Quebec, and how a change would affect the people of Quebec and their unique culture. This is because, unlike English Canada in comparison to the United States, Quebec does in fact have a distinct culture. Quebec has not only different customs and traditions, but also have a different major religion, different laws, and most distinctively, a different language.

As has been discussed in other sections on this site, Quebec's government is adamant about preserving Quebec's French identity. After all, the French were the first Europeans to settle in Canada, a colony the British acquired only later. So, much like Native Americans, the French feel they deserve special rights because their ancestors were on this land first. For the most part, the French got these rights because the British were very wary of losing more land after the disaster (to them) of the American Revolution. This is why Quebec to this day retains its French Civil Laws, and is allowed to govern itself with more latitude than most other provinces.

Quebecois feel this need to protect themselves, in no small part because of the fact that they are surrounded by 300 million English-speaking North Americans. So when one walks into Quebec, (s)he will notice nearly all government signs are in French only. Even France itself is more open to the English language. In Quebec, nearly all stop signs say "ARRET"; in France, they say "STOP". In Manitoba, Ontario, Nova Scotia and other provinces, many provincial signs are labeled in both English and French, despite the fact that they are all English dominated areas. In Quebec, all provincial signs are in French only. In fact, Quebec even has a "language police" which enforce Quebec's strict language laws (see CBC Language in Quebec Backgrounder). All commercial signs in Quebec must contain French lettering that is at least twice as large as any other language. This would seem strange to most, since Canada is supposed to be a bilingual country. However, Quebec holds a lot of power in Canada's parliamentary system, and Quebecois tend to vote for one (or two) parties en masse, rather than splitting among the many parties that Canada has.

In the past this has been used in favor of the federal party, the Bloc Quebecois. This party's single mandate is separation of Quebec, from Canada. The climax of the separation issue came in 1995. The voters of Quebec were asked to decide "Should Quebec separate?", and the answer was almost as close as the 2000 US election. The "No" side won a 50.6% majority, with a difference of only 26,750 votes, out of over 4.7 million votes cast (see CBC Newsworld Flashback: Quebec Referendum). The federal government argued that Quebec would have needed more than 50% +1, but if the separatists had received a majority, they would have had real grounds for declaring their own nation.

Quebec separatism has since then receded, but it is far from gone. The separatist Parti Quebecois still holds a large number of seats in the provincial government, and the Bloc Quebecois still hold the majority of Quebec's seats in the federal parliament where it is the third largest party in Canada.

This forces the question, if Quebec can barely stay within Canada, how could it be a part of the American Union? The only real answer is, Quebec would need to join and sign onto the US Constitution freely and willingly. In Canada, many of the problems with Quebec separatism are rooted in the fact that Quebec never gave its consent to the Canadian confederation. Many Quebecois still see themselves as a defeated nation in a country that they were forced to join. This is why no Quebec government has ever signed the Canadian Constitution. However, if Quebec were to become a State within the United States of America, they would have to do so voluntarily. They would have to join with the understanding that they would not be catered to, or treated specially; they would be equal members in a strong and united Union, nothing more, and nothing less.

The fact remains that Quebec stands to gain as much as the rest of Canada does in joining with the United States. Quebec, with its high unemployment, high debt and high taxes would see all these negatives shrink within a larger Union. Quebec often boasts how it does more trade with the United States than with the rest of Canada, and obvious benefits would arise from not having to deal with trade barriers that exist at international boundaries.

Economically, Quebec stands to gain as much as the rest of Canada. However, what about Quebec's special needs? What about the French language? What about protecting Quebec's distinct culture? These are obviously issues that would need to be dealt with between the US and Quebec governments. However, it is not unprecedented for individual US states to protect their cultures. When the Louisiana Territory was divided and Louisiana was admitted as a state in 1812, it was given special rights to protect its French heritage (See CODOFIL). When the Republic of Texas joined the Union in 1845, being its own country, it was given many liberties, and special rights to protect its culture (See THC). When Hawaii entered the Union in 1959, it was also given special rights to protect its distinct and different culture (See HCPA). Surely, Quebec would be free to protect their own culture and heritage within the confines of the US Constitution, which provides liberty and equality for all.

In the end, what we have in common is far greater than what differs between us. If Hawaii with its different culture, ethnic groups, traditions, values and completely different original language could grow and prosper within the United States, then so can Quebec.

[Monorprise]

I await your apology for saying I am anti American. I am pro Canada thats where I stand. I just don`t particuarly like the present government. Just because I ,and I suspect the majority of posters on FD gripe about the government does not mean we want to become Americans. You have misread ,I believe the purpose of FD. I await your apology.

When is this going to change? And why come to a site called Free domination if your pro Canada confederation, and are apposed to a free dominion or anything other than Status quos?? I though this was about western separations, freedom from Canada? Respect for your province?
When is thus who hold all the power, going to change, and diverge the power back where it belongs?
When will the Canadian constitution have any value? When will Canada start respecting its western provinces? Then Answer to when is here the question why. And I see no valid reasons for them to ever give up power or ever change, do you?
Don’t hold your breath for an apology because I wont apologies for what I believe, I am actually an American, and Americans are all entitled to say or believe anything they want, about whoever or whatever we want!
And I will not back down on the fact that I think your anti American, because your apposed to union with America at any and every point, despite the changing world may demand it! I don’t think I would rule that out for New Mexico, had our situation been reversed.
My view is your hate and opposition is born solver out of your opposition of the idea of America! That makes you under theses circumstances anti American. Because your expiation for your position simply does not hold up, to the propose of this site and forum, as so clearly stated in its name!

[albertabound]

Muddy wrote :-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes it is different. There is much to admire about the Excited States but my Canada is in my heart and soul. I will fight to save it.

With all due respect, the Canada you are trying to save was lost 30 years ago. That big red spot on the map, the Dominion of Canada for which brave Canadians fought and died for is long gone.

The Liberals in adopting the United Nations Charter as the basis for our statehood sold this country out to Quebec, multiculturalism, and a host of other isms.

The only hope we have to preserve what is left is for each Province, with the exception of Quebec, to become independant States within the Union.

Ottawa has tried to implement Nationalistic policies, Anti-American legislation and insulting rhetoric to stop the inevitable drift, but Canadians continue to do what is natural, become Americans in word thought and deed. Propping up an unconstitutional form of Government intent on holding Centralized power by imobilizing Provincial authority is doomed to failure and it is time to face the new reality.

Canada, The United States and Mexico with a combined force of 550 million people will be hard pressed to compete with even the Chinese at 1.5 billion , let alone the other ethnic majorities seeking world domination unless we are all united. How long do you think a shrinking world is going to allow 32 million hosers control the second largest land mass in the world loaded with scarce resources unless we become part of something stronger that an impotent United Nations. Get real folks, the world changed 9/11 and our little backyard brouhaha in which we squabble about linguistic pluralities and resource sharing formulas means jack shit , especialy when we constantly thumb our noses at the only real friends we have in this world, the United States and Britain. The Aussies get it, too bad Canadians do not.

[Muddy]

I await your apology for saying I am anti American. I am pro Canada thats where I stand. I just don`t particuarly like the present government. Just because I ,and I suspect the majority of posters on FD gripe about the government does not mean we want to become Americans. You have misread ,I believe the purpose of FD. I await your apology.

When is this going to change? And why come to a site called Free domination if your pro Canada confederation, and are apposed to a free dominion or anything other than Status quos?? I though this was about western separations, freedom from Canada? Respect for your province?
When is thus who hold all the power, going to change, and diverge the power back where it belongs?
When will the Canadian constitution have any value? When will Canada start respecting its western provinces? Then Answer to when is here the question why. And I see no valid reasons for them to ever give up power or ever change, do you?
Don’t hold your breath for an apology because I wont apologies for what I believe, I am actually an American, and Americans are all entitled to say or believe anything they want, about whoever or whatever we want!
And I will not back down on the fact that I think your anti American, because your apposed to union with America at any and every point, despite the changing world may demand it! I don’t think I would rule that out for New Mexico, had our situation been reversed.
My view is your hate and opposition is born solver out of your opposition of the idea of America! That makes you under theses circumstances anti American. Because your expiation for your position simply does not hold up, to the propose of this site and forum, as so clearly stated in its name!

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

[styky]

Go gettum Muddy I've been waiting with baitted breath all afternoon. It was All I could do to keep my self composed after I read that drivil.
I knew you's peg him right.

[Muddy]

Thanks Gimpgirl. I have no idea where this clown is coming from. I wonder if some of our other American poster have noticed this thread. We have some really decent American posters on FD who certainly would not agree with this dolt.

[styky]

he does not make a bit of sense either,,,,

When is this going to change? And why come to a site called Free domination if your pro Canada confederation, and are apposed to a free dominion or anything other than Status quos?? I though this was about western separations, freedom from Canada? Respect for your province?

This site is called what........ :?:

[Monorprise]

I await your apology for saying I am anti American. I am pro Canada thats where I stand. I just don`t particuarly like the present government. Just because I ,and I suspect the majority of posters on FD gripe about the government does not mean we want to become Americans. You have misread ,I believe the purpose of FD. I await your apology.

When is this going to change? And why come to a site called Free domination if your pro Canada confederation, and are apposed to a free dominion or anything other than Status quos?? I though this was about western separations, freedom from Canada? Respect for your province?
When is thus who hold all the power, going to change, and diverge the power back where it belongs?
When will the Canadian constitution have any value? When will Canada start respecting its western provinces? Then Answer to when is here the question why. And I see no valid reasons for them to ever give up power or ever change, do you?
Don’t hold your breath for an apology because I wont apologies for what I believe, I am actually an American, and Americans are all entitled to say or believe anything they want, about whoever or whatever we want!
And I will not back down on the fact that I think your anti American, because your apposed to union with America at any and every point, despite the changing world may demand it! I don’t think I would rule that out for New Mexico, had our situation been reversed.
My view is your hate and opposition is born solver out of your opposition of the idea of America! That makes you under theses circumstances anti American. Because your expiation for your position simply does not hold up, to the propose of this site and forum, as so clearly stated in its name!

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

No I was saying your anti-American, because your absolute against ever becoming American as if it was a diseases. Ill respective of the situation around you!! If Canada fell apart I’m getting you would still be absolute apposes to joking the American union!! Even if your life and well being depended on it!!
I don’t know how else to take this, this is offensive!! If the American Union Fell apart I would be in support of joining Canada. But you NOOOO!! Because them bloodedly Americans are like a foreran despises, and you cant possibly have anything, that is so obviously true in common with them! this is the message I get from you, and this is why I call your Anti-American!!

[Muddy]

You have a lot of class! Too bad it`s all third. You are a disgrace to the name American.

[Hasdrubul]

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

Look I understand your desire to fix Canada but in today's climate I don't see it happening. As you already known Canada is no longer the nation you know and love, the government is collapsing little by little and as we become too soft and globol warming really takes effect this land will be become more attractive to threats such as China. It is clear in our day our forces have become to weak in the way of equipment, we do have well trained soldiers, but we no longer have the mite to defend ourselves.

[styky]

I await your apology for saying I am anti American. I am pro Canada thats where I stand. I just don`t particuarly like the present government. Just because I ,and I suspect the majority of posters on FD gripe about the government does not mean we want to become Americans. You have misread ,I believe the purpose of FD. I await your apology.

When is this going to change? And why come to a site called Free domination if your pro Canada confederation, and are apposed to a free dominion or anything other than Status quos?? I though this was about western separations, freedom from Canada? Respect for your province?
When is thus who hold all the power, going to change, and diverge the power back where it belongs?
When will the Canadian constitution have any value? When will Canada start respecting its western provinces? Then Answer to when is here the question why. And I see no valid reasons for them to ever give up power or ever change, do you?
Don’t hold your breath for an apology because I wont apologies for what I believe, I am actually an American, and Americans are all entitled to say or believe anything they want, about whoever or whatever we want!
And I will not back down on the fact that I think your anti American, because your apposed to union with America at any and every point, despite the changing world may demand it! I don’t think I would rule that out for New Mexico, had our situation been reversed.
My view is your hate and opposition is born solver out of your opposition of the idea of America! That makes you under theses circumstances anti American. Because your expiation for your position simply does not hold up, to the propose of this site and forum, as so clearly stated in its name!

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

No I was saying your anti-American, because your absolute against ever becoming American as if it was a diseases. Ill respective of the situation around you!! If Canada fell apart I’m getting you would still be absolute apposes to joking the American union!! Even if your life and well being depended on it!!
I don’t know how else to take this, this is offensive!! If the American Union Fell apart I would be in support of joining Canada. But you NOOOO!! Because them bloodedly Americans are like a foreran despises, and you cant possibly have anything, that is so obviously true in common with them! this is the message I get from you, and this is why I call your Anti-American!!

I have never heard such a bag of hogswattle. You are reading into his words something that was absolutly not said. We are here for discussion not fantasy. If there were eever someone who had respect for the people of both the US and Canada it's muddy. You good sir are an ass. I will now go wash you have made me feel dirty.

[Jean]

My 2 cents

- Canada could be improved, yes. We do need a stronger military, a less corrupt governement and a less regulated economy. No doubt about it. In short, what we need to improve this country is , IMHO and in the opinion of most people here, a Conservative governement. A real one of course, not one that have the name Conservative but act like Liberals lite.

However, to suggest than Canada is collapsing and than all its lost for it is a gross exageration. No matter how you look at it we still have one of the richest country of the world, a country that is envied by many. Canada is still a synonym of freedom, prosperity and peace. We have all the neccesarry human and natural ressources to succeed on our own. I believe than Canada is already among the best countries on this green Earth of ours, and than with a little effort it could be the single best one.

- Concerning Free Dominion - Its mission is to promote Conservative ideas in Canada, not to promote union with the US

[styky]

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

Look I understand your desire to fix Canada but in today's climate I don't see it happening. As you already known Canada is no longer the nation you know and love, the government is collapsing little by little and as we become too soft and globol warming really takes effect this land will be become more attractive to threats such as China. It is clear in our day our forces have become to weak in the way of equipment, we do have well trained soldiers, but we no longer have the mite to defend ourselves.

What you suggest is that everything is too far gone so we should just sit on our hands and give up. Time to find yourself a bucket full of balls. Drag out your history books and read the 1930's those were hard times this is a bloody picnic. If you don't feel that your country is worth fighting for why should your country in fact care about you. Wake up and help maked the changes that bring this country back to is's former glory. Get some courage.

[Muddy]

Let me get this straight ,whom ever does not want to be an American ,is then judged by you to be anti American! Well ,how can I say this politely? Your an arrogant fool. Your a disgrace as an American.

Look I understand your desire to fix Canada but in today's climate I don't see it happening. As you already known Canada is no longer the nation you know and love, the government is collapsing little by little and as we become too soft and globol warming really takes effect this land will be become more attractive to threats such as China. It is clear in our day our forces have become to weak in the way of equipment, we do have well trained soldiers, but we no longer have the mite to defend ourselves.

What in tarnation has that anything to do with Has saying I am anti American? Where have I ever said anything to justify being labeled that?
If Canada and the states play hockey and I root for the home team does that make me anti American? What absolute balderdash. I am livid at being called something I am not. That is the issue now!

[Jean]

Muddy made it indeed very clear than he is not an anti-american. I never saw a post of his that could be interpreted as such.

Being a Canadian nationalist and being pro American are not mutually exclusive