Mandatory Canadian Military Service: Solving the Recruitment

by **Barry Stagg** » 04/ 27/ 02 5:51 pm

Re: Stagg as statist authoritarian- suggested by Ian Berg.
I respectfully decline with megalomanic thanks.
Seriously, the employment aspects of mass military service are well recognized historically, more so in the U. S. than in Canada. The prime purpose of mandatory service is not employment but employment in such a worthwhile national effort is to be preferred to a layabout method of unemployment benefits that promotes dependency. Look at the whole process in organic terms: young people go into military service and de facto into the work force simultaneously in terms of their introduction to responsible, regular obligations. This produces a work ethic that can,hopefully, transcend the various social pathologies that foster sloth and entitlement attitudes in us all.

by **Jason Kauppinen** » 04/ 27/ 02 10:52 pm

How is the Draft different from Communism in general?

by **Barry Stagg** » 04/ 28/ 02 12:06 am

In our Nannyed State, the conservatives are buying into the etiquette of the liberals: Anything compulsory that does not fit the template of getting something for nothing is deemed to be arbitrary, repressive, maybe even 'communist'.

Canadians can police our own borders, secure our part of the continent, be a self-sufficient nation with the significant effort called mandatory military service. Breaking the mindset of Big Comfortable Nurse and her daycare vassals is a key to starting out toward that goal.

by **Ipberg** » 04/ 28/ 02 1:02 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Barry Stagg:
[QB]Re: Stagg as statist authoritarian- suggested by Ian Berg.
I respectfully decline with megalomanic thanks.<hr /></blockquote>I deliberately chose those words. It's statist to use the military as a means to deal with unemployment and it's authoritarian to compel everyone to serve.

<blockquote>quote:<hr />The prime purpose of mandatory service is not employment...<hr /></blockquote>...But it's to turn young people into better men and women. I understand this, you've made your case but it still sounds like social engineering, especially since we haven't declared war on any country and have just a small contingent of troops under enemy fire right now.

by **Ipberg** » 04/ 28/ 02 1:08 am

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Barry Stagg:
Canadians can police our own borders, secure our part of the continent, be a self-sufficient nation with the significant effort called mandatory military service.<hr /></blockquote>I question if we can ever be a self-sufficient nation with or without the draft considering our dependence on trade for many of the goods we enjoy. But the other things can be accomplished without mandatory military service if we simply provided the resources to the military to beef up our ports of entry security. An improved military with higher morale will have no problem recruiting more people.

by **Jason Kauppinen** » 04/ 28/ 02 2:46 am

But you see Stagg the military would be getting my labour without my consent; somthing for nothing. It sounds communist to me.

by **Barry Stagg** » 04/ 28/ 02 10:17 am

'Everything gives you cancer'.
Social engineering, communism, statism: As words to oppose mandatory military service, these remind me of the throwaway line, 'everything gives you cancer'.

by **Jason Kauppinen** » 04/ 28/ 02 3:16 pm

If you're so sure you're right Barry then you should have no problem proving my draft=communism equality wrong.

As for service in general; a state must earn my services through it's commitment to defending my natural rights as a citizen.

It's similar to respect. My respect for an individual must be earned it cannot be commanded.

So an individual who demands that I respect him/her without earning it will not get my respect.

Similarly a state which demands that I serve it in a military capacity without earning that priviledge will not recieve my services.

by **Barry Stagg** » 04/ 28/ 02 3:38 pm

Why not say the draft=fascism? The state has to govern, as an instrument of laws made and applied by citizens. If anything the state deems compulsory is personally rejected by an individual citizen that personal rejection does not trump the state's interests. Opposition to the actions of the state is a fundamental freedom in our pluralistic democracy but care must be taken to avoid confusing nihilistic anarchy with libertarian concepts of personal autonomy.

Try this reasoning-perhaps circular,perhaps not:A Canada that implements mandatory military service is deserving of our respect. Remember, it is highly unlikely that a Liberal government would ever contemplate that.

by **Jason Kauppinen** » 04/ 28/ 02 6:54 pm

Barry Stagg wrote

<blockquote>quote:<hr />. If anything the state deems compulsory is personally rejected by an individual citizen that personal rejection does not trump the state's interests.<hr /></blockquote>Actually, in certain situations, it can. This is why the draft is wrong. It removes the power of an individual to make a moral assessment of the state and puts it in the hands of the government.

by **WestViking** » 04/ 28/ 02 8:57 pm

I cannot imagine any near future Canadian government imposing mandatory military service without a referendum on the issue.

Once the people have spoken, in a free and democratic vote, and assuming they are in favour, where do your conscrition=communism arguments go?

Typically, everyine want to stand for freedom and rights as long as someone else does any fighting required for us to enjoy those rights and freedoms.

<img border="0" alt="[Viking]" title="" src="graemlins/viking.gif" />

by **WestViking** » 04/ 28/ 02 10:45 pm

It is interesting to compare the arguments used hereand those on the IS ABORTION MORAL? thread.

Evidently the rights of those of conscriptable age are different than those of mothers who may face a decision on abortion.

Are these double standards?

<img border="0" alt="[Viking]" title="" src="graemlins/viking.gif" />

by **Barry Stagg** » 05/ 05/ 02 9:48 pm

Resurrection of this topic: Query- Is a national dialogue on mandatory military service a cathartic way to move beyond the assumed liberal truths and into a principled but conservative assertion of Canadian nationalism- through strength and the ability to act independently? [ 05-05-2002, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Barry Stagg ]

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